According to former Vice President Cheney, practices widely regarded as torture prevented further attack on America after 9/11. The facts are in dispute. But suppose he is correct – can torture be justified on such utilitarian grounds? What is the philosophical basis of our aversion to using torture? Is the moral principle not to torture absolute or circumstantial? Ken and John consider the ethics of torture with Nancy Sherman from Georgetown University, author of The Untold War: Inside the Hearts, Minds, and Souls of Our Soldiers.