Elevator Systems - Bowen Family Systems Theory

S3 Ep7 Marriage with Phil Klever

5 snips

Aug 19, 2025

Phil Klever, a seasoned researcher with over two decades of experience in studying marriages through Bowen family systems theory, joins the discussion. He examines the critical balance between individual identity and connection within marriage, emphasizing the influence of multi-generational dynamics. Phil shares insights on navigating conflict and emotional disconnect, while revealing how past patterns shape current relationships. Personal anecdotes, like meeting in-laws, illustrate the complexities couples face, encouraging deeper self-awareness for healthier partnerships.

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ANECDOTE

Classic Pursue-Avoid Couple

Phil shared a young couple where she pursues having a child and he withdraws, creating a pursue-avoid cycle.
Their repeated pattern magnified anxiety and shut down sexual and emotional connection.

ADVICE

Activate Self With Direct Questions

Do ask direct questions that activate each partner's own thoughts and feelings to strengthen self-awareness.
Encourage partners to describe their desires rather than narrate the other's behavior.

ADVICE

Slow Down And Track Conversation

Try tracking conversations visually or pausing to notice whether you're listening or preparing a rebuttal.
Slow down interactions to separate your own thinking from reactive responses to the partner.

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Welcome to Elevator Systems! This episode looks at Bowen family systems theory and marriage. Joining Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White is Phil Klever who has spent over two decades doing research on married couples.

Phil Klever has applied Bowen theory in his clinical practice and his personal life over most of his adult life. He has tested Bowen theory hypotheses in his longitudinal family research study. He is a member of Dr. Daniel Papero's postgraduate research seminar, the Bowen theory Journal Club, and the Bowen Center's Research Committee.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

Observing fusion in marriage and the balance of being both a separate and connected person is central in maintaining maturity in marriage
The influence of the multi-generational family on marriage
Thinking through relationship patterns: conflict, distance, triangles, and over and under-functioning
Keeping a broad perspective of influences on marriage
Examples: the classic approach/avoid pattern, a personal example of meeting the in-laws, and “The Story of Us”.

Couples and counsellors alike will gain insights to how Bowen theory can inform one’s understanding of the marriage relationship.

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

The Murray Bowen Archives Project
Dr. Ronald Richardson: Family Ties that Bind
Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
Peg Donley interview
Donley, M (2016) “Bonding and Babies: The Evolution of Biparental Care and The Primary Triangle”, Family Systems, 12,1.
Phil Klever Research:

Chapters:

1998. “Marital Fusion and Differentiation.” In Titelman (Ed.) Clinical Applications of Bowen Family Systems Theory
2003. “Marital Functioning and Multigenerational Fusion and Cutoff.” In Titelman (Ed.), Emotional Cutoff
2008. “Triangles in Marriage.” In Titelman (Ed.), Triangles: Bowen Family Systems Theory Perspectives
2014. “Applying Differentiation of Self in One’s Family.” In Titelman (Ed.), Differentiation of Self
2020. “The Primary Triangle and Variation in Family Functioning.” In Keller and Noone (Ed.), Handbook of Bowen Family Systems Theory and Research Methods
2020. “The Multigenerational Transmission of Family Unit Functioning.” In Keller and Noone (Ed.), Handbook of Bowen Family Systems Theory and Research Methods

Articles:

2018. “Goal Effectiveness and Family Functioning.” The American Journal of Family Therapy 46: 195-212
2021. “Divergent Spouse Functioning.” Family Systems 14: 103-130.
2023. “Similarity in Spouse Functioning.” Family Systems 17.2: 139-165
2025. “Child Focus and the Family Unit: A Comparison of Families with Lower and Higher Child Symptomology.” Family Systems 19, 2: 105-133.

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan!

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Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more here

Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Marriage #Couples #MarriageDynamics #FamilyofOrigin #FamilyHistory #MultiGenerational #TheStoryofUsMovie #TherapyPodcast #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.