Corporate venturing as a path to innovation in Japan

You might think that large Japanese companies have trouble innovating. Unfortunately if you believe that, you would be correct. Recently, however, there are a few reasons for hope. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem, and Japan Inc. now largely understands that their traditional R&D methods are broken, and are looking to startups for help and inspiration. Corporate venturing (spinning out internal projects as startups) is one such approach. But it's not an easy one. Today we sit down with Kenji Tateiwa and discuss the rewards and challenges of spinning Agile Energy X out of TEPCO. We talk about why it's hard to bring renewable energy onto the grid, how to nurture a startup inside very conservative organizations, and the future of corporate venturing in Japan. It's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it. Show Notes Why it's hard to get more renewable energy onto the grid Introduction to demand response and demand management How to nurture a startup inside a conservative enterprise and how to spin out The financial challenges in the core business model The competitive landscape in energy services Why its hard to raise funds as a corporate spin-out Staffing challenges in corporate venturing Maintaining strategic independence from the parent company Can corporate venturing drive innovation back to the parent Links from the Founder Everything you ever wanted to know about Agile Energy X Japanese homepage Connect with Kenji on LinkedIn Yuri Group's paper on using Bitcoin Mining to support renewable energy Info in Japanese Kenji's article on how Stanford creates an innovative mindset Denki Shimbun's series on bitcoin mining Leave a comment Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan, Straight Talk from Japan's most innovative founders and VCs. I'm Tim Romero and thanks for joining me. Who says, large enterprises can't innovate?! Well, most people actually, and overall they're right. The larger an organization becomes, the more barriers to innovation it puts in place. It's almost a form of self-defense for the enterprise. Well, today we sit down with Kenji Tateiwa of Agile Energy X, and we explore corporate venturing in Japan. Kenji was a decades long employee of TEPCO, Japan's largest energy utility. And also my old employer. Kenji had an idea that he developed into a small internal project, but one that was simply not practical to run inside of TEPCO. So, he convinced leadership to give him the seed funding to spin it out into a new startup. But there have been some bumps in the road, both the things that all founders face, like customer acquisition and also challenges unique to corporate venturing, like transitioning from a subsidiary to a true startup. Kenji and I dive into the challenges of maintaining independence from the mothership and the mixed incentives of corporate ventures, how he convinced conservative management to take a chance on his startup idea. And why, despite all the challenges, this kind of corporate venturing is going to prove absolutely essential to innovation in Japan. But, you know, Kenji tells that story much better than I can. So, let's get right to the interview. Interview Tim: So, I'm sitting here with Kenji Tateiwa of Agile Energy X, who's helping get more renewable energy onto Japan's grid via Bitcoin mining. So, thanks for joining me. Kenji: Yeah, you're welcome, Tim. My pleasure. Tim: Now I gave a really brief introduction to what you do, but I think you can explain it much better than I can. So, what is Agile Energy X doing, and what's the problem you're trying to solve? Kenji: Yes, founded Agile Energy X as an inhouse startup within TEPCO with a mission to introduce as much renewable energy in Japan as possible using a flexible demand, including Bitcoin mining. Tim: So, how does having flexible demand help get renewables onto the grid? Kenji: So, the issue with renewable energy, and I mean variable renewable energy, like solar power and wind power cannot control how much power you supply from these energy sources. Tim: When the wind's blowing, the sun's shining, you got a lot of electricity. And when it's not, you don't. Kenji: That's right. And the issue of electricity is you always have to match the demand with the supply or else the grid frequency will fluctuate, and in a severe case, it will lead to a blackout. And the issue of balancing the grid, it's very challenging for the utilities. So, if there's not much demand to soak up the power generated by these variable renewable energy you have to shut down the renewable energy resources, which leads to curtailment or a wasted energy. Tim: Unlike you and me, most of our listeners have not worked for years in the energy industry, but the process of grid balancing is just fascinating. And I think people don't appreciate what a wonder of engineering it is. Basically, every electron you push onto the grid anywhere has to be taken off somewhere else in real time. It's moving almost to the speed of light. You just have to balance these power generation with the load caused by millions of millions of people randomly switching things on and off in real time. So, with Agile Energy X, when you've got excess energy, you spin up bitcoin mining? Kenji: That's right. The push for renewable energy has accelerated in Japan after the 2011 FIMA nuclear accident. Before that Japan used to depend about 25% in nuclear but then it dropped almost to 0% after 2011. And then the Japanese government pushed for renewable energy before the push for renewable energy power utilities. Primary function was to match the demand with the supply. So the power demand came first, and in order to match the demand, the fluctuation was controlled by mostly thermal power. But then we had this generation coming in independent of the demand. The utilities have now been tasked with something that they hadn't done before to match the demand with a uncontrollable supply from the variable renewable energy. Tim: So, suddenly they find that they have to manage both sides of the equation. Kenji: That's right. And the issue is the power demand is the utilities customers so you cannot control what the customer does, the customer behavior, it's up to the customers. If they want to use electricity, it's their choice. But there's a flexible customer, like a Bitcoin miner. Utilities can ask Bitcoin miners to turn up or turn down to match the supply. Tim: So, there's two things there. First is traditional demand response. As you said, they never really manage the demand side too much, but there was always a case where if the load was too big, the power companies could call up factories and say, Hey, we'll give you some money. And if you shut down for a while, are you taking advantage of demand response as well? Kenji: Yes, utilities have been taking advantage of demand response to some extent. However, the economic incentive was not sufficient to have enough resources that could cope with the amount of variability of renewable power generation. And also in Japan, utilities don't really want to force customers to change their behaviors, even if there are contracts that allows utilities to do. So, it's a Japanese way of doing business. Tim: Well, let's talk a bit about what curtailment is and why it's important. Kenji: Back in 2018, the first curtailment of renewable energy started in Japan in the Kyushu Island, the southern part of Japan, where there's abundant solar energy resources. The demand during the spring and fall during the daytime, when it's sunny and a lot of solar power generation happening, but not much air conditioning demand, then curtailment happened, meaning the utilities had to ask the renewable generators to stop generating because there is not much demand. And if they continue to generate power, it's going to overshoot the grid frequency. Tim: Actually, in Japan, curtailment rates are still very, very low. It's around like 2%, 2.5%. Kenji: It's increasing by the year. And depending on the location, the Kyushu area, it's getting quite high. April or May, during the daytime, some solar power generators are asked to curtail more than 50% of the time during April, May. Tim: And, and so with so much curtailment, it means that these project developers who want to put up wind farms, solar farms, can't make money. So, that really slows down the renewable development. It slows down people putting in renewable power. Kenji: Absolutely. So, it's not just the issue of existing solar generators or wind generators. It hinders the new development because as you mentioned, it will make the renewable generators difficult to finance because of the curtailment. The banks will not be willing to lend money to set up a project financing, because the uncertainty with the curtailment is a big issue for the profitability of the renewable projects. Tim: And so Agile Energy X acts as sort of a buyer of last resort. Instead of having to shut off the generation, you can say, hey, we're located close by. We'll use whatever energy you have and we'll buy it from you. Kenji: That's right. So Bitcoin miners like ourselves, we can be the buyer of last resort, but as well as buyer of first resort. Meaning like nowadays, everyone's trying to build AI data centers when it's going to take time. And depending on if the solar or wind or whatever generators come into line before the data centers are built and ready to offtake the power, Bitcoin miners can first take the electricity from the generators. And if the AI data centers comes along, then Bitcoin miners can move on to another place. Tim: Now this model's been used in other places, Texas in particular. Is this the first in Japan? Kenji: I think it'll be the first in a large scale at least, however, just solving the curtailment issue, there is not enough profitability.