The Retail Razor Show S2E10a #NRFLive SPECIAL - #TRI Friends Fireside Chat on #NRF2023
In honor of the NRF Big Show we’re kicking off a special podcast cross-over series, #NRFLive, with Jeff Roster’s show This Week In Innovation. This episode is a very special, intimately authentic conversation between four top retail influencers, recorded live, and in-person during the NRF show.
Jeff and host, Ricardo Belmar, join retail legends, Vicki Cantrell, CEO of Vendors in Partnership, LLC, and Ron Thurston, author of Retail Pride and host of the Retail in America podcast and tour. Together our four retail friends chat about the VIP Awards ceremony, RetailROI’s Super Saturday event, what they expect to see during NRF, the impact of innovation in retail, & the latest retail tech buzzwords. Plus, they reach an important conclusion about why retail is, after all, all about the people.
Listen, or watch on YouTube, and join our four friends for the kind of discussion that can only happen when you’re recording live, and in-person in a setting like the NRF Big Show!
News alert #1: The Retail Razor Show was a finalist for The Retail Voice Award at the Vendors in Partnership Award ceremony during the NRF Big Show 2023!
News alert #2! We’ve moved up to #18 on the Feedspot Top 60 Best Retail podcasts list - please consider giving us a 5-star review in Apple Podcasts! With your help, we’ll move our way up the Top 20! Leave us a review & be mentioned in future episodes! https://blog.feedspot.com/retail_podcasts/
Meet your hosts, helping you cut through the clutter in retail & retail tech:
Ricardo Belmar, a RETHINK Retail Top Retail Influencer for 2023, 2022 & 2021, RIS News Top Movers and Shakers in Retail for 2021, a Top 12 ecommerce influencer, advisory council member at George Mason University’s Center for Retail Transformation, and director partner marketing advisor for retail & consumer goods at Microsoft.
Casey Golden, CEO of Luxlock, and a RETHINK Retail Top Retail Influencer for 2023. Obsessed with the customer relationship between the brand and the consumer. After a career on the fashion and supply chain technology side of the business, now slaying franken-stacks and building retail tech!
Includes music provided by imunobeats.com, featuring E-Motive, and Overclocked, from the album Beat Hype, written by Hestron Mimms, published by Imuno.
The Retail Razor Show
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Retail Razor Show Episode Page: https://bit.ly/RRShowPod
Host → Ricardo Belmar,
Follow on Twitter - https://bit.ly/twRBelmar
Connect on LinkedIn - https://bit.ly/LIRBelmar
Read my comments on RetailWire - https://bit.ly/RWRBelmar
Co-host → Casey Golden,
Follow on Twitter - https://bit.ly/twCasey
Connect on LinkedIn - https://bit.ly/LICasey
Read my comments on RetailWire - https://bit.ly/RWCasey
TRANSCRIPT
S2E10a #NRFLive SPECIAL - #TRI Friends Fireside Chat
[00:00:00] Show Intro
[00:00:00] Ricardo Belmar: Hello and welcome to a special season two episode 10 of the Retail Razor Show. This is the first of a multi-part series recorded live and in person at the N R F 2023 show from January 13th to 18th, otherwise known as N R F Week. And I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar.
[00:00:37] Casey Golden: And I'm your co-host, Casey Golden. Welcome, retail Razor Show listeners, retail's favorite podcast for product junkies, commerce technologists, and everyone else in retail and retail tech alike. And for this special bonus, welcome N R F fans to our hot take, hashtag N R F Live mini series.
[00:00:59] Ricardo Belmar: Well, Casey, [00:01:00] this is an incredible treat for listeners and viewers. Just like our last episode, our top 10 trends and predictions for 2023, the recordings in this miniseries all happen live and in person. While you know about 35,000 or so of our closest retail friends swarmed New York City,
[00:01:16] Casey Golden: I just loved recording face-to-face when we're just not, these two little squares from the shoulders up on a Zoom screen.
[00:01:24] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So let's set the stage here for this series. Lot lot's happening. Cuz not only is this a special live and in-person recording series, but it's also a podcast crossover event.
[00:01:35] Casey Golden: Wait really?
[00:01:37] Ricardo Belmar: Yes, really we are crossing over with our fellow Retail Avenger, Jeff Roster and his This Week in Innovation podcast.
[00:01:45] Here's what'll happen. So this episode kicks off our hashtag N R F Live series with what may be my absolute favorite podcast recording of our entire run so far.
[00:01:55] Casey Golden: all time fave like that's saying a lot. I mean, I [00:02:00] adore Jeff, but this is an all time fave.
[00:02:03] Ricardo Belmar: Yes, yes. Really of, of, of all time. Well, at least until the next one, but no
[00:02:10] Casey Golden: All right. Well, with that kind of buildup you'll have to explain a little more so, spill.
[00:02:15] Ricardo Belmar: Okay. Okay. So late last year Jeff and I were talking about our N R F plans, comparing how many places we, we overlapped and realized it would be a great opportunity to do a series of interviews of super interesting people at N R F. Friends we don't often see in person and just talk trends. Talk about what's hot at the show, what's coming next in retail.
[00:02:37] So the crossover was born. And we thought, we'll, we'll jointly host these interviews and then we'll just release them all across both the Retail Razor Show and This Week in Innovation
[00:02:45] Casey Golden: Very cool. I'm digging this
[00:02:48] Ricardo Belmar: But wait, there's more
[00:02:50] Casey Golden: in your best announcement voice
[00:02:52] Ricardo Belmar: I'm trying to build up some suspense here
[00:02:54] Casey Golden: We're already on the edge of our seat.
[00:02:56] Ricardo Belmar: So, so not only is this our first crossover series, but [00:03:00] it's also our first sponsored podcast.
[00:03:03] Casey Golden: Ah, look at our podcast. It's adulting
[00:03:06] Ricardo Belmar: exactly, exactly. We didn't realize just how popular we we've become. So while Jeff and I were making plans around who we tried to interview during N R F, there was one important thing we realized. We actually need a really solid place to sit down and record during N R F, because let's face it, the Javit Center isn't the most conducive to podcast recording
[00:03:26] Casey Golden: It's not the most conducive for much. So I mean, I don't think we could do this while sitting in front of Starbucks either.
[00:03:34] Ricardo Belmar: Right. E Exactly, exactly. But fortunately for us, our, our good friends of the show and avid podcast supporters at Avanade made us a really nice offer to use some space in their lounge area on the fourth floor, just above the expo hall. So fans of our show may have seen a preview photo of this setup on LinkedIn during N R F as we posted a few behind the scenes pics courtesy of the, the marketing team at Avanade
[00:03:56] Casey Golden: Oh, big shout out to the marketing team at Avanade [00:04:00] for their support and for providing such an amazing space. I wish I could have been there for all of these.
[00:04:07] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, we, we definitely missed you for those. And, and for this episode's recording, we were also fortunate to take advantage of another great spot in one of the conference rooms at the Microsoft Times Square office. Right after this year's retail ROI Super Saturday event had concluded right at the same location.
[00:04:22] So extra fortunate. We happened to run into two very special friends of the show who've been on before. They agreed to sit down with Jeff and me to have an open conversation about our first two days at N r. About what we expected to find, what we might uncover during the show. And to be fair, Jeff and I pitched this as a quick 15 minute recording to them to convince them to do it.
[00:04:42] And of course that turned into a nearly 50 minutes session because guess what happens when you have four retail friends get together? I haven't seen each other in person in so long.
[00:04:51] Casey Golden: Yeah, we just don't stop. I'm thinking it would be very much like a friends' TV show reunion episode. You just [00:05:00] keep going and going because there is just so much happening in the industry right now
[00:05:05] Ricardo Belmar: You, you said it. You said it. So, so we'll be hearing our, our conversation this episode with none other than retail legend, Vicki Cantrell currently c e o at vendors in partnership and organizer of the V I P awards event during N R F plus, Ron Thurston, author of the bestselling book, Retail Pride and Host of the Retail in America Podcast and tour.
[00:05:25] And of course, to top it all off, since we're all RETHINK Retail, top retail influencers for 2023 just announced at the N R F show.
[00:05:34] Casey Golden: Absolutely incredible and I'm so honored to be on the list this year and included, a big congrats all around to everyone for making the cut and sharing their perspective.
[00:05:47] Ricardo Belmar: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and fun fact, this might even surprise some listeners and viewers, but Ron and I met in person for the first time at this n r F show.
[00:05:56] You know, absolute, it's a like a pandemic story, right? I mean, as after all [00:06:00] these years that we've known each other. But this was the first time we actually met face to face in person.
[00:06:06] Casey Golden: Wow. I didn't realize that. I actually met Ron during the pandemic in Dominican Republic.
[00:06:12] Ricardo Belmar: That's right. That's right.
[00:06:15] Casey Golden: It's just, that is just an amazing little fun fact. You know, we forget how, how often we work with people that we've actually never been i r l with.
[00:06:28] Ricardo Belmar: That's right. And you, and you'll hear us talk about that in the recording too, cuz we all had stories that had happened to us just in those first couple of days.
[00:06:35] Casey Golden: Yeah, I mean how could we build up this episode any more than we already have? So let's get to it and not keep everyone waiting.
[00:06:44] Ricardo Belmar: Yes, I totally agree.
[00:06:47] Casey Golden: Ah, I wanna point out one more thing.
[00:06:50] Ricardo Belmar: Y you didn't just do that, did you?
[00:06:52] Casey Golden: I did. But first I wanna point out that you've said multiple viewer multiple times now. And I [00:07:00] know we told our listeners they could see us on video and episode one of the season, but we've had some tech technical issues plaguing us all season long. . This is actually the first one we've released this season with video.
[00:07:16] Ricardo Belmar: Good point. Good catch. Casey. Yes, yes. We actually do have video this time. And honestly we have our, our great friends at Rethink Retail. To thank for that Gabriela Bock, one of the producers at Rethink was gracious enough to record our conversation on video. And while what, if you're watching the video, you have to pay attention to just how small a conference room that was.
[00:07:38] I don't know how she managed to stay with us for, for almost the entire time. Carefully walking around the room with video gear and it, it was just an amazing effort. You know, we, we had also told her it was gonna be 15 minutes and she thought, oh great. This is, this will be fun to do and sure enough turns into 50.
[00:07:55] So, you know what, what an amazing effort and thanks so much to, to Gabriella and RETHINK for, for doing that for us.[00:08:00]
[00:08:00] Casey Golden: Well talk about commitment and just incredible continued support. And if you're a careful viewer, you'll also catch another familiar rethink retail face in the background, taking photos. I won't give away who it is yet, but when we come back, we'll let you in on the scoop.
[00:08:17] Ricardo Belmar: Okay, well, a, after this incredibly long intro that we've managed now, maybe our longest yet let's dive in and listen to what Jeff, Vicki, Ron, and myself had to say about the v i p awards, Retail ROI, N R F in general, and just the state of retail today and, and what we expect to, to happen this year.
[00:08:35] And, and you'll see why this is quickly my, my favorite podcast we've ever done.
[00:08:39] Casey Golden: Amazing.
[00:08:39]
[00:08:44] #NRFLive - TRI Friends Fireside Chat
[00:08:44] Ricardo Belmar: Hey everybody. I'm here with Jeff Roster and co-host of this weekend innovation, and you guessed it. This is part of our crossover series between our two podcasts. How you doing, Jeff?
[00:08:55] Jeff Roster: I am doing fantastic. Ricardo, how about yourself
[00:08:58] Ricardo Belmar: I'm doing wonderful. [00:09:00] And part of that I would say is true for you too because we are live and in person at the N R F show, which we haven't been in quite some time.
[00:09:08] three years.
[00:09:09] Jeff Roster: Well, actually I was here. I was here last
[00:09:12] Ricardo Belmar: you get bonus points for last year. You get bonus points for last
[00:09:16] Jeff Roster: year, okay. The re the Startup community came strong last year
[00:09:18] Ricardo Belmar: That's true. That's very true. You can, we'll, we'll leave that one there and then on that one there. And we are joined by two incredibly wonderful people in the retail industry.
[00:09:28] Vicki Cantrell, how you doing? Vicki? And Ron Thurston.
[00:09:33] Ron Thurston: Hi everyone. Happy to be here.
[00:09:35] Ricardo Belmar: So we thought we would just kind of kick things off by talking a little bit about the first couple of events that have started N r F week this year starting with Vicki, with your event. Last night as of when we were recording this, the vendors in partnership awards ceremony.
[00:09:49] Why don't you give us a, a quick recap of some of the highlights.
[00:09:52] Vicki Cantrell: Oh, I'd love to. It was really an amazing night. Um, we, uh, I started this thing three years ago [00:10:00] and last night I think we kind of crossed a threshold because the message that I have dreamed about is really taking hold.
[00:10:07] And it's about how we do business, not who does business with who. And really about problem solving, not solution selling, and. The things that really resonated with me last night and the things that people come up and say to me have to do with the fact that I say that, you know, people buy from people, they don't buy from companies.
[00:10:30] Um, the gratitude that people had when they had to kind of put together their nominations and they realize. They took a breath and said how far they've come and they were able to recognize their teams. These are all the relationship aspects, um, that flowed through the night. Aside from that, it was a beautiful night, beautiful venue.
[00:10:51] So much love in the room. We sold out.
[00:10:54] Jeff Roster: congratulations.
[00:10:55] Thank you.
[00:10:56] Ricardo Belmar: a big achievement. Yeah.
[00:10:57] Jeff Roster: I kind of liked it when I could move around a little bit.
[00:10:59] Vicki Cantrell: I know [00:11:00] you do.
[00:11:00] Jeff Roster: so you know,
[00:11:02] Ron Thurston: there were people here today are
[00:11:03] Jeff Roster: quite as easy moving around this, time,
[00:11:07] Vicki Cantrell: but uh, yeah, so, uh, we're really thrilled with the evening and, uh, a lot of great buzz and I just believe, I always thought I was pushing a rock uphill to take away this, this aspect of buyer, seller.
[00:11:21] Yeah. But you know, it's that rock is moving. And so I'm thrilled.
[00:11:27] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. I, I, I, I like the way you put it because I really feel like your event, uh, so nicely demonstrate that it is a relationship.
[00:11:35] It's not just buyer seller. Right. Right. It's a partnership between what we're all collectively trying to
[00:11:40] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah. Yeah. Everybody in the room is equals and that's what makes this the most special party. And, and people are not tired. You know, they're, this is their celebration. This is the celebration for the people that actually run this show and, uh, are gonna go through a grueling four [00:12:00] or five days that's gonna make or break their year.
[00:12:03] Right. And why not. Let's celebrate for what they bring to the industry and what they allow us all to do.
[00:12:12] Ricardo Belmar: Yep. I'm well said. Well said. Ron, what's your impression so far at like, I, I guess I would call this day two of nrf,
[00:12:18] Jeff Roster: It's day two for us. I don't know about anybody
[00:12:20] Vicki Cantrell: for sure.
[00:12:21] Ron Thurston: a good one
[00:12:21] Ricardo Belmar: for everybody, but for us,
[00:12:22] Ron Thurston: you know, I had the, I had the, I've known Vicki for I think 15 years, so we go way back Tor Tory Birch years.
[00:12:30] Um, and Vicky was generous enough last year to invite me to give out an award to retailer's favorite and this year I was nominated. So it was great to just be there and to be, even though I'm not a vendor, I feel like I know so many of the vendors. I've been a retailer, I have so many friends in the room.
[00:12:48] It's just a joy. It's a joy to be there. And, and you're right, I think it's early. Everyone dresses up. Yes. You know, by Tuesday I have this feeling, you know, we'll, I'll be wearing jeans and
[00:12:58] Vicki Cantrell: Right. It's sneakers. [00:13:00] Hundred
[00:13:00] Ron Thurston: don't care anymore. But, um, it's a beautiful. Beautiful.
[00:13:05] Vicki Cantrell: my feet are already cooked, but, and I'm only on day one and this is a, this I have not factored in, so I, I gotta,
[00:13:12] Ricardo Belmar: We're, we're all still learning
[00:13:13] Jeff Roster: No sensible shoes then,
[00:13:15] huh?
[00:13:15] Vicki Cantrell: I have some
[00:13:18] Ricardo Belmar: you, you can't get enough sensible shoes, I
[00:13:20] Vicki Cantrell: That's true.
[00:13:20] Ricardo Belmar: Takeaway I have from that Yeah. No. No matter how much you try. So we're also all here on day two at one of my other favorite events of the week. RetailROI's Super Saturday. Uh, I was excited to be able to hosted this event at the Microsoft office in Times Square.
[00:13:37] Um, Jeff, I think you wanna, sh you had some stats you'd like to share maybe on how we did
[00:13:42] Jeff Roster: Well,
[00:13:43] very well.
[00:13:46] Ricardo Belmar: that's,
[00:13:46] Jeff Roster: that's analyst speak for, Hmm. I think we were well over $320,000. It's, it was the,
[00:13:52] Vicki Cantrell: the
[00:13:53] closer to three
[00:13:54] Jeff Roster: Three 50. It was the second biggest year revenue wise. Um, the other [00:14:00] observations, uh, crazy energy. So I would agree with, um, you know, as, as, as somebody that was at, uh, Vicki's event, the energy was off the charts. That was the big speculation, um, that I was testing. You know, the, in the, the run up to N RF series I was doing is, what do you expect?
[00:14:14] You know, and we were talking about make sure you have, you know, masks and, and all this and be sensitive to who people, you know, whatever. And that's, that's all that advice is all still. But, uh, I think, I think people are ready to rock and roll and the energy's off
[00:14:27] Ricardo Belmar: The energy's there, right.
[00:14:28] Jeff Roster: they're definitely wanna be sensitive if people are still have, have whatever issues, but, uh, solid energy.
[00:14:33] We kind of got a sense of that. Maybe Wednesday, Thursday you could just start, I could start seeing the emails confirmed for, uh, v I p and definitely, definitely today for sure. This is day two and tons of energy. People wanna, you know, re reconnect. Um, I dunno about you guys, but, um, I've bumped into at least 10 people that I've known virtually
[00:14:58] Right. For years now, who I [00:15:00] believe I have a legitimate relationship and I'm like,
[00:15:04] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, no, that, that's
[00:15:05] Vicki Cantrell: that's so true.
[00:15:06] Ricardo Belmar: so, right Ron, Ron and I have now, I don't know, known each other I,
[00:15:11] Ron Thurston: couple years.
[00:15:12] Couple years now. Yeah.
[00:15:13] Ricardo Belmar: we, this was the first day we finally got to meet in person.
[00:15:15] Ron Thurston: true. It's really true.
[00:15:17] Vicki Cantrell: So I'm shocked because as, as well as Zoom does things, people look different in person,
[00:15:25] And like somebody walked in who I've had probably 15 zooms with and choose about a foot taller than I expected. She walked in and I thought, and so you don't recognize, you know, it's, it's really something. There's gonna be a lot of that this, this
[00:15:40] Ron Thurston: there will be
[00:15:41] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah.
[00:15:42] Ricardo Belmar: no, no doubt. No doubt.
[00:15:45] So what's
[00:15:47] everyone thinking now that we've, we've kind of had a taste of the energy after a couple of events. The, the full-blown show starts tomorrow. So what is everyone thinking? The vibe is gonna be on the show floor.
[00:15:59] Ron Thurston: Mm-hmm.[00:16:00]
[00:16:01] Vicki Cantrell: I would say that, um, because of this energy and, and what I'm hearing just in a few conversations of today and yesterday is, uh, and people are actually saying that, you know, the pandemic, so we're ready to get back out there.
[00:16:16] They're using this kind of language and this is solution providers, and for them that means get back out there. I wanna go to events, I wanna pick and choose different types of events. I. You know, more involved in different types of things. And today we heard about two different vendors who are now heavily involved and didn't know anything about roi.
[00:16:38] So when you, when you think about a little bit, right? You said that, oh yes, but, but you know, you just, because they are now. Wanting to be involved in new things, new ways, get back out there. I would say the watch phrase is get back out there and that's what we're gonna see on the floor that people are gonna be looking to [00:17:00] like, am I up to date on technology?
[00:17:02] Let me stop at all these booths to really feel like I'm connected again. Yeah, that's what I think.
[00:17:08] Ron Thurston: And I think because there's been so much conversation about all the new ideas and all the new technology, yeah.
[00:17:14] You actually need to touch and feel it. Yeah. Similar to shopping in a retail store, I think I'm excited to go down, you know, innovation. Lane and what are all these brands bringing? What are, what's happening? What are some big new ideas? Yeah, and you know, a lot of retailers, and I'm sure we'll speak about the Rethink retail bash coming up, but the minute I posted of, you know, hey, rethink retail is having this, the amount of responses that I received of like, I'd love to go, I'd love to go.
[00:17:41] Yes. The willingness and desire to reconnect is powerful.
[00:17:46] Ricardo Belmar: Powerful, yeah. Yeah, that's
[00:17:47] right. That's right. So, well since you brought up the, the rethink retail that we're, I think we're all going to be at, uh, Monday night. What, what other, so day one, official day one, I'll call it right. For NRF Sunday [00:18:00] tomorrow.
[00:18:00] That's on day two. Um, anything else anyone is excited to be going to, of the remaining
[00:18:07] Vicki Cantrell: I'm sorry, but I can't not talk about rock and roll retail. I, I mean Yep.
[00:18:14] Ricardo Belmar: I'm with you on that one.
[00:18:15] Vicki Cantrell: That's, that's the other thing where retailers are so embedded in different fun areas of life. Yeah. Okay. Yes. They do charity work.
[00:18:24] They go on trips. Mm-hmm. , they play music. They make a band, they
[00:18:29] Ron Thurston: and it
[00:18:30] Ricardo Belmar: comes together
[00:18:30] Vicki Cantrell: together here, and it all comes together here.
[00:18:32] Ron Thurston: Wow. So fun.
[00:18:34] Ricardo Belmar: for that one too. That's another, another Monday, late evening. Oh my god. Activity.
[00:18:39] Vicki Cantrell: Yes. And then of course the Retail Retailer Insiders
[00:18:43] Ron Thurston: was just gonna say that one too. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be my first year attending that.
[00:18:47] It'll be fun. You ready? Get ready. That's, that's all 9:00 PM on a Sunday night. A lot of
[00:18:51] Jeff Roster: tie at that one. That's a little more raucous for sure. Um, very good. Um, lot of people, um, you know, so it's, the [00:19:00] energy is clearly here.
[00:19:01] There's no doubt about it. The um, As ugly and hideous as Covid was, it clearly was a stimulant to, to innovation. I mean, we tracked that on this week. I think you did it on retail razor too. The, the, you know, I mean the number of BOPIS uh, setups were just off the charts, right? We now realize low code's, a real unique strategic advantage, uh, be able to move faster, more nimbler.
[00:19:20] And so I think what we're gonna see is. I don't wanna say an explosion of innovation, cuz I would argue, I mean I've been tracking it for 20 years. It's, it's, I, I, I don't think things just explode, but they accelerate and the ability to innovate. And the fact that startups three or four or five years ago really weren't even, I mean, Vicky, when you were there, I mean you were just starting to bring the startups in.
[00:19:42] They were always there. They were. I mean, I live in Silicon Valley. We've been doing startups really since Hewlett and Packard got together in 1938. So we're not new to startup. , but all of a sudden the industry has said, this is this giant opportunity to, to um, showcase this in this innovation has always been [00:20:00] going on.
[00:20:00] That's why, you know, the big companies have, are, have been, uh, making acquisitions, but now we're, we're featuring these people and this is the, I mean, the heart of of businesses. These and some young entrepreneurs, a lot, not so young entrepreneurs, but that energy and they're being featured now and it's just.
[00:20:19] And it's just gonna be, I think it's gonna be a celebration of innovation, is maybe the way I'm gonna
[00:20:24] Vicki Cantrell: it, Jeff, you know, I also wanna say something about innovation. That that overused word. Okay. And because when you say innovation, everybody thinks tech innovation. Mm-hmm. . Okay. But what the last few years have shown us is that innovation is across the board, innovation on how you speak to each other, innovation on how you.
[00:20:45] teams work together. Innovation on how you approach something. By the way, you wouldn't, low-code wouldn't have such a, a presence if there was an innovation in how you do things, not just the tech. [00:21:00] And so people have really changed how they do business and that requires innovation of thought and innovation of mm-hmm.
[00:21:10] how you use your people.
[00:21:11] Ron Thurston: and Agreed.
[00:21:12] Vicki Cantrell: You know, because retailers have to be like super agile.
[00:21:16] Ron Thurston: Yeah. And, and it's only as effective as the adoption normally, which has to happen in a store.
[00:21:23] Vicki Cantrell: Oh boy. Isn't that the truth?
[00:21:24] Ron Thurston: That's the truth.
[00:21:25] Vicki Cantrell: That's it,
[00:21:26] Ron Thurston: there's so much
[00:21:27] new, there's a lot of, I'll say this, there's a lot of people who develop technology that have never worked in retail. And so there's Yes. I know it's a bold statement, you know, just gonna say it, know,
[00:21:40] Jeff Roster: We've got story. We got a whole podcast where, where we could talk, tell stories. Central office. No, it's not a central office. It's called a store. Please change that on your slide deck. I catch a lot of that. And you still see it at this store
[00:21:53] Ron Thurston: You do. I mean, it's the 50% want to quit their job working in retail stat. I
[00:21:58] Ricardo Belmar: Oh, right. Yeah.
[00:21:59] Ron Thurston: it's those, [00:22:00] and so I think there's this whole concept again of what does the store need.
[00:22:05] Ask the store. Right, right. Before you go and develop technology. Right. And there are, um, there's a solution that will be in the innovation aisle this year called Reflex, and they're doing on demand staffing. Yes. And so this is an actual need that is. In integral to the success of our industry. Yeah. To say that we need on-demand gig economy, style retail workforce, right?
[00:22:29] Because the workforce is demanding it. They're demanding flexibility. So here's someone that's innovating this idea. Yes. And coming up with new technology. So don't just create something because you think it's a good idea. ask the people who need this technology and how they'll use it. So why I'm such a big Yoobic fan who were, you know, also nominated last night.
[00:22:50] Yeah. They, they really listen to what the stores need. Yep. Stores and restaurants need, and it's, that's why the adoption's so high.
[00:22:59] Jeff Roster: I'll [00:23:00] tell you a little secret. Um, there's a bunch of CIOs that the first question they ask a tech vendor is, tell me what you think of my store?
[00:23:07] Ron Thurston: That's a great question.
[00:23:08] Vicki Cantrell: Yes.
[00:23:08] Jeff Roster: want, you want to know
[00:23:09] Ron Thurston: who
[00:23:09] Jeff Roster: many vendors could wash out right up there?
[00:23:11] Vicki Cantrell: Yep.
[00:23:11] Jeff Roster: A
[00:23:11] lot. A lot..
[00:23:12] Ricardo Belmar: So these people
[00:23:13] Vicki Cantrell: have so basic,
[00:23:14] hundreds,
[00:23:14] Jeff Roster: if not thousands of dollars to maybe fly travel, prepare for a meeting, and they did not go to the physical store
[00:23:22] Vicki Cantrell: mm-hmm.
[00:23:22] Jeff Roster: and make some observations.
[00:23:23] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.
[00:23:24] Jeff Roster: and, and it's just like, you know, it's just like a crocodile, just ready to pounce cuz the, you know, the cio Just first question, tell me what you think and, and it's not a trick question. No, I was in your store. It seemed busy, it seemed cluttered, it seemed really good. I liked the lighting. I did, I, it, it's easy,
[00:23:41] Ron Thurston: Yeah.
[00:23:41] Jeff Roster: you got to, you're telling me you're gonna try to do and you don't know their business and that's the point you're making and that's valuable
[00:23:48] Ron Thurston: really valuable. I, I asked that question often of management candidates, you know, and my office was right here in Times Square. There were six intermix stores in the city. Tell me the story you're in. Yeah. And [00:24:00] the the question could end. Yeah. You know, very quickly. Yeah. And so you're right.
[00:24:04] Yeah. It's like, do your homework, learn what's necessary, learn what's important, and then help. Right. You know, help us be better because of it.
[00:24:14] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think that question is so powerful as to your point, RO I've used that myself being on the vendor side in a meeting with a group of retail executives, or I've asked them, well, More from a wanting to learn perspective. I said, well, tell me about your store. Tell me the last time you were in a store and what you thought were the biggest challenges.
[00:24:33] And I was always surprised. Half the time I asked that question, I couldn't get an answer because I was, had a room full of people who couldn't remember the last time they had walked to their own stores. So I think that's one, to me, it was one of the most simplest basic things that everybody in the industry can do is just, you know, Go visit the store.
[00:24:50] Yes.
[00:24:51] See what's going on. Ask the people that are there,
[00:24:53] what's
[00:24:54] Vicki Cantrell: wrong. So simple. Right.
[00:24:55] So simple. so simple.
[00:24:56] Ron Thurston: simple. You know,
[00:24:57] Ricardo Belmar: know? Well, we, we heard some examples today, right?
[00:24:59] Vicki Cantrell: [00:25:00] Right. Sharon Sessions from From
[00:25:01] Ricardo Belmar: Sharon. Yeah, true. From the Undercover, undercover
[00:25:04] Vicki Cantrell: Boss
[00:25:04] Get to the source. It's that simple. ,
[00:25:08] Ron Thurston: and
[00:25:08] maybe it's not in New York City, you know, go, you know, as I have traveled across the country this year, I, I would be confident to say a lot of those stores in the, the heartland of this country have never been visited by an executive can guarantee it.
[00:25:24] Yes. And so maybe get out of la, New York. Right. And go visits the flagship store, the low volume. Yeah. Not just flag low volume, you know.
[00:25:34] And look for those opportunities Yeah. That are available just by asking questions.
[00:25:40] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Vicki Cantrell: Yep.
[00:25:41] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, I think there'll be a lot of those questions hopefully be asked over the next few.
[00:25:45] days.
[00:25:45] Ron Thurston: Yeah,
[00:25:46] so too.
[00:25:47] Jeff Roster: So what do you think the big buzzwords for the show are gonna be?
[00:25:51] Ricardo Belmar: Oh, that's a great question, Jeff.
[00:25:53] You know, every nrf I I come to, it seems in recent years though, always start with, I'm sure this is the year every vendor's gonna [00:26:00] talk about ai. Mm-hmm. I, I still kind of chuckle a little bit. I forget which year it was, when it seemed like every time I turn around the expo floor, there was a booth with a robot in it and then, and now I want to kind of walk through and say, where did all the robots go? Yeah.
[00:26:11] Jeff Roster: they're working, they're in the stores. Apparently working. I guess maybe,
[00:26:14] Ricardo Belmar: I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I, I'm actually kind of interested to see what the buzzy words are going to be this time. You know, we we're kind of coming out of a year where the first half of the year, the big buzz was all about Metaverse.
[00:26:27] Mm-hmm. . I don't, I don't expect that to be the one. I think there'll be some, I mean, I, I still expect to see some web three discussion maybe.
[00:26:34] Ron Thurston: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:34] Ricardo Belmar: I think there's definitely gonna be a lot of,
[00:26:36] maybe new applications. I'll, I'll put it that way, to ai you know, certainly things talking about pricing, I think that's a.
[00:26:44] Vicki Cantrell: seems to be a lot of conversation around pricing.
[00:26:46] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
[00:26:48] Ricardo Belmar: I expect to hear a lot about returns management. Yeah. Just given where we're at, you know, that being a, a solution
[00:26:54] Jeff Roster: I agree a hundred percent.
[00:26:56] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Um, yeah.
[00:26:57] Jeff Roster: just because it's so [00:27:00] unsexy. but it's, you know, returns are where profits go to die.
[00:27:05] And yet, if we're gonna talk about being sustainable, I mean the, probably the least sustainable process on the planet is returns.
[00:27:11] Ron Thurston: Agreed.
[00:27:11] Ricardo Belmar: Right,
[00:27:11] Jeff Roster: Just
[00:27:12] you ship you ship thing 8,000 miles or however you process it, you got it out. and it's coming back and it's coming back in a far be worse condition than it left.
[00:27:21] And it is a mess. And you're touching it again and every time you touch, you're hanging another dollar on that thing. Yeah. So if we can figure out how, and, and there were some great conversations today, like, you know, maybe we need to deselect some customers and I, you know, if we're gonna be serious about being sustainable.
[00:27:37] Yeah. Why are you returning so much? Is it an issue with sizing? Which it clearly is. technology. Uh, solutions. They're, they're starting to become some, you know, AI models and, and 3D models and all that stuff. I mean, there's a lot of things that we can look at, but if somehow we can say, how do we, you know, how do we not return 50% or 60% of stuff?
[00:27:57] That's a huge
[00:27:59] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. That's A huge one. [00:28:00] Yeah.
[00:28:00] Jeff Roster: Um, so I love that. So, re returns, I, I'm, How might debate with you a little bit on Metaverse. We'll have to settle up afterwards, but I'm much more of a fan of immersive commerce, which our friend Michael Zakour has, has
[00:28:11] Vicki Cantrell: that. Yeah. So we
[00:28:12] Jeff Roster: can, we can talk about, uh, we can talk about augmented reality and not talk about, you know, getting
[00:28:17] Ricardo Belmar: virtual
[00:28:18] Jeff Roster: you know,
[00:28:18] Ricardo Belmar: part. Well, I'll, I'll tell you. I, I will. Concede one point on, on
[00:28:23] Jeff Roster: one
[00:28:23] I'm getting one,
[00:28:24] Ricardo Belmar: oh, you'll get one today. . Ask me again at the end, at the end
[00:28:27] Jeff Roster: I will
[00:28:27] Ricardo Belmar: You'll, I know you will, I know you'll keep, you'll hold me to that
[00:28:30] I, I would say the, the one, because I know there are sessions about this, so that, that's why I'm gonna bring it up. And I've already talked to some folks about it and I know I see it with our customers, with the partners I work with. One really strong use case for Metaverse is digital. Um, especially with, uh, the consumer goods brands that we work with there, there's lots and lots of interest in that because you can just have, if you're building the digital twin, right, you have your entire operations modeled that you can play around with.
[00:28:58] Come up with new operations, [00:29:00] new products, without ever having to touch anything physical and incur the cost for that. And you'll know upfront, now I built it in that digital twin. Now I know what the outcome's gonna be before I build version So I think.
[00:29:10] Ron Thurston: that's
[00:29:11] Ricardo Belmar: In my mind the most valid use case today,
[00:29:14] today.
[00:29:15] Cuz I know you're looking at me, Jeff, and, and you're thinking there's more to it than that.
[00:29:18] Jeff Roster: Oh, I'm waiting. I'm,
[00:29:18] Ricardo Belmar: I know, I know. You're, you're finding, I know you're waiting the pounce on me for that one, but I'm gonna say that's today's use case for metaverse. All the other ones I think, I don't know if it's this year.
[00:29:28] I think they'll come. I'll, I'll agree with you on that one. It it's coming, but I don't know that it's, this year.
[00:29:32] Vicki Cantrell: This has, this is in that same category of how much you have to pay attention. You have to be paying attention. But c, come where we are economically and where we are, it's going to be, I'm going to pay attention and I'm, but I'm also understand that no bright, shiny objects.
[00:29:51] Right. Okay. And that's where it is still, you know, it's still that,
[00:29:55] Ricardo Belmar: but you get some of the
[00:29:56] core core pieces.
[00:29:57] I think that to me is the, the key for some of these. And that's why I [00:30:00] keep bringing up the digital twin
[00:30:01] Vicki Cantrell: Well, just like ai,
[00:30:02] the same core pieces,
[00:30:02] you need
[00:30:03] Ricardo Belmar: pieces, right?
[00:30:04] Vicki Cantrell: You
[00:30:04] Ricardo Belmar: need that
[00:30:04] fundamental
[00:30:05] Jeff Roster: And that's why
[00:30:06] Ricardo Belmar: so you can build on, that's
[00:30:07] Jeff Roster: why immersive commerce is a superior word to Metaverse cuz you can get those pieces and you can kind of loop it. Cuz we, as analysts, we have to have something to hang that framework on. Cause we gotta study, we gotta survey it, we gotta forecast it.
[00:30:19] You ain't forecasting Metaverse? Cause that's nonsense.
[00:30:21] Vicki Cantrell: Right? Right.
[00:30:22] Jeff Roster: Right? Um,
[00:30:22] oh, it's, uh, $22 trillion. Okay. I picked what, it's ridiculous. What's that based on? But immersive commerce, you can break out ai, well you can break out AI's foundation, you can break out virtual reality, augmented reality, all these components.
[00:30:34] And now you can build
[00:30:35] a, you can build a deal. And I think that's probably a far better way for us to talk about it. And there's absolutely zero energy, pro or con around that
[00:30:44] Vicki Cantrell: Right.
[00:30:45] Jeff Roster: And, uh, you know, unfortunately, I think the guy out in my, part of the, the, you know, states maybe kind of mucked up that word just won't say who
[00:30:53] Ricardo Belmar: just a little low,
[00:30:54] Jeff Roster: but, um, but no, I, so, so, we'll, so we'll have to, we'll have to, we'll have to square up, but I'm, I'm thinking [00:31:00] augmented reality, um, we've had it, we've had it in aviation for 20 years.
[00:31:03] Ricardo Belmar: Uh, yeah.
[00:31:03] Jeff Roster: I, trained in simulator, so pieces are not there. And I'll tell you the other thing that's the most interesting about this thing is not so much what Nike's doing in whatever the virtual reality world I think the best example is what Alta Cosmetics doing.
[00:31:18] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.
[00:31:18] Jeff Roster: Um,
[00:31:19] and
[00:31:19] and they've got with Roblox and they've got a lot of young girls with moms playing in what sure sounds like a metaverse thing. So now you're taking it away from the boys playing world at war, and now you've gone, you know, a far bigger thing and there's clearly value there.
[00:31:34] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah. And so
[00:31:35] Jeff Roster: that, that's when I heard that story. And it's actually even a better to share, but.
[00:31:42] that's telling me, okay, now we've, now
[00:31:45] Vicki Cantrell: something
[00:31:46] Ron Thurston: Yeah, and Altas such a great story because in every way, in every way, because it's accessible. You see it in, you know, the hundreds of locations, you see it all over the country.
[00:31:56] You have a very in-store touch feel, experience it as [00:32:00] you want. You have a metaverse digital immersive version of it, and I think that's, that's what great retail is. It's that incredibly immersive way to think about it. However you choose to experience it,
[00:32:13] Jeff Roster: go. That's the point where you're not taking this entire heavy vision and you're just taking out the pieces. I mean, you look at like the smart mirrors that they're doing, where they're actually, they've actually invested in a, in an AI startup to be able to analyze skin. It's sort of started off as almost as a medical, uh, strategy.
[00:32:29] To determine skin cancers and all of a sudden, hey, well you know what, if we analyze skin, then we can better, you know, this is obviously not my area of expertise, but uh, I paid for a lot of this stuff with a daughter and a wife, ,
[00:32:39] I mean, that's heavy duty technology to involved in that business. And the other thing why I, I just love having Ulta on, on the pod is they have an investment firm
[00:32:51] Vicki Cantrell: Yes.
[00:32:51] Jeff Roster: Okay. We're not talking about Walmart or Amazon now, we're talking and, and they're not small retailer. I mean, they're over $8 billion. So they're high, you know, they're not high. They're a [00:33:00] major tier one player, but they've set up an investment firm, so, they can go invest in the startup community for, for technologies that are appropriate to their business.
[00:33:07] And they've already made some acquisitions. And now, so, you know, the problem I've always had is an analyst using Walmart. And now Amazon is an example. Everyone says, oh, you know, you're giving permission to people not to pay attention. Oh, I'm not Walmart, I'm not Amazon. you're $2 billion retailer.
[00:33:22] You're a $4 billion, you do this. Or if, if you don't understand, somebody else
[00:33:27] is
[00:33:27] Vicki Cantrell: right.
[00:33:27] Jeff Roster: And that's, you know, we're in the business of being in business and so, innovation, how you look at it. That needs to be in a mindset. Now, I'm not saying spend top dollar, but I am saying start thinking about your business differently.
[00:33:40] And most importantly, and this goes back to a bus ride, I don't know you remember in Honduras where we talked, started talking about the era of an intentional innovation.
[00:33:47] Vicki Cantrell: Uh, that
[00:33:48] absolutely right.
[00:33:49] Absolutely
[00:33:49] Jeff Roster: You know, that was mid, that was more than a few moons ago, uh, I remember you and I were sitting there just kind of going back and forth and I was just expressing my frustration that the fact that retailers never, ever wanted [00:34:00] to talk about the mistakes they made from a technology perspective is, as an analyst.
[00:34:03] That was so difficult because that's how we learned. Well, and then you said, you know, Appropriately no one wanted to, you know, seem like they failed. And then, you know, being a Gartner and having colleagues in my direct practice that were in other verticals, when I would share that with them, they'd say, are you crazy?
[00:34:18] Our greatest successes in manufacturing were failures in theory. I mean, the 3M example of, uh, of um, uh, yellow, uh, stick notes
[00:34:27] that was post-its Yeah.
[00:34:28] it. That was like a failed glue experiment that, uh, that a guy that was in a choir wanted to be able to have some kind of a glue that he would stick so he could have his notes for, for singing and, oh, that glue that didn't work was perfect. We're, we're one of the few industries that don't celebrate, or at least didn't celebrate our failures. And that I think needs to change. And so if I can get
[00:34:50] retail, senior retail leadership to say, you guys have to push the envelope and you have to be okay.
[00:34:56] Break the bank by failing, but fail fast, which is in Silicon [00:35:00] Valley.
[00:35:00] We live by
[00:35:00] Vicki Cantrell: right? Yeah.
[00:35:01] Jeff Roster: Fail fast.
[00:35:02] Ron Thurston: Yep,
[00:35:02] Vicki Cantrell: you know, it's different now. The mindset is different now. Before there was a fear of that because it always touched the customer, and the customer was delicate. Now, today's customer very different. Today's customer lives, breathes and sleeps and eats with.
[00:35:21] Just
[00:35:21] mess in, in, in every retail experience, in every restaurant.
[00:35:27] You know, life, schools, education, politics, they live in a mess. Okay? So they are going to, and they don't make decisions about where they shop and who they shop with based on whether it was a perf. Perfect
[00:35:41] experience, right?
[00:35:43] They make it for different reasons. So again, you know, hate to beat a dead horse after 40 years of beating a dead horse,
[00:35:51] It starts with the customer and it's not about the customer who's walking in your store. It's about understand the human, what is happening to this [00:36:00] human these days? What is their life like? What is their family like? Understand them. And then apply your brand to it. Not here's my brand. Where do I find a person who will like
[00:36:11] that?
[00:36:11] Ron Thurston: could not agree more?
[00:36:12] Vicki Cantrell: It's never been that way, but nobody, it just, it takes a long time to get that. And now the consumer, as they always do, is forcing. Mm-hmm. that so they are messier. So the retailer can be messier and be forgiven. And when the retailer says I was messy, I'm sorry.
[00:36:34] have at it. That's great.
[00:36:35] Jeff Roster: Isn't that a better customer experience though? I'll, I'll, I'll
[00:36:37] Vicki Cantrell: go. It is.
[00:36:38] Jeff Roster: if I, as a, if I as a retailer make a mistake, but then I fix it. Isn't that better?
[00:36:43] Vicki Cantrell: Yes.
[00:36:44] Jeff Roster: To that customer. Cuz then they, that's one that's, they perceive value in that they perceived honesty cuz it is in fact being honest.
[00:36:50] Ron Thurston: Right, right.
[00:36:51] Jeff Roster: And you have a, you have a better, I think you have a better experience
[00:36:54] Ron Thurston: You do. It's authenticity and I, I would say the customer appreciates it. But so does the store team. The store [00:37:00] team knows when you've done maybe not the right thing. So if the company comes, senior leadership comes back and said, you know what we.
[00:37:08] We did make the right decision. We didn't spend money where we should have, and this is what we're gonna do differently. What that creates is retention for the store teams, which is probably another R word, along with
[00:37:19] the recession word, which I think will also come up this week. Um, I think employee, employee retention.
[00:37:25] I know I'm host, I'm, I'm doing, um, um, a panel tomorrow on that. I think this idea of what do brands need to do to hire, retain, and attract great talent. Yeah. It's, it's another 40 year like dead horse. To your point, Vicky , that you and I have been having this conversation also for many years, but it's, it's actually never been more important.
[00:37:48] Yeah. And it's really hard to say that in 2023, it's critical. It's it, it will make or break the future of any brand not retaining their talent.
[00:37:59] Vicki Cantrell: It's funny how it has [00:38:00] to do with people
[00:38:00] still all still after
[00:38:02] Ron Thurston: still. It always comes back too. Yeah. Yeah. Which It's really good, but it's really, but it's messy.
[00:38:08] I love Vicky's word because managing humans is messy. Yeah. And it's hard, and which is also why I believe. Many people don't want to talk about it because it's really hard. Yeah, yeah. And it's emotional and there's, that emotion is bigger than ever. So that
[00:38:26] the ability to lead people in an inspiring way has never been harder.
[00:38:31] Yeah.
[00:38:32] Jeff Roster: Yeah. You know what I like about that phrase, messy is, you know, one of the, one of the Metaverse technologies or uh, one of the
[00:38:41] Ricardo Belmar: Immersive
[00:38:41] immersive commerce
[00:38:42] Vicki Cantrell: technologies
[00:38:42] Jeff Roster: technologies is live streaming. And now it's a done deal. It's a done deal in China.
[00:38:45] It's a done deals Asia PAC, and we just think we're now beginning to experiment with My only worry about that is if we try to over, over produce the live streams and I'll, the example I'll point to is B N H photo,
[00:38:59] Ricardo Belmar: [00:39:00] Mm-hmm.
[00:39:01] So
[00:39:01] Jeff Roster: n h photo, A lot of this equipment is from B&H Photo
[00:39:05] Vicki Cantrell: right. I'm sure
[00:39:05] Jeff Roster: look around. And so for, for folks who dunno who that is, it's just literally the best, uh, camera shop in the planet, I would argue.
[00:39:13] Um, and it's, people are passionate. They're, the salespeople are exactly everyone you would want them to be
[00:39:19] Passionate about the product, use the product for our photographers. And so when you go in, you have this amazing experience. Well, I used to, you know, cause I live in California and there there's only one store and it's in right here in Manhattan.
[00:39:31] Um, you used to have to call in. , which was okay. And then they started doing text chat, which is actually okay, cuz then they could send links. Well, somebody said, why don't we just put a ca, we're a camera store, put a camera in there, . And the first one I did was like two years or whenever it was. And it was not
[00:39:47] a good, I mean it was a good experience, but it was not a fancy, I mean, it was like, This is not a great stream, but the content was crazy and I'm like, this is fantastic.
[00:39:57] The guy's showing me this and he's, he's pulling out a [00:40:00] $3,000 camera lens and a 10,000, uh, Kathy, I put that one back. Okay. I didn't buy that one. . And then he brought over a cheaper way and I'm like, I'm like, this is crazy. And then, you know, Michael Zakour comes into your, your, uh, clubhouse and then he starts talking about what's happening in an Asia Pac.
[00:40:14] And I said, oh, that's novel idea. Why don't we look east? And then I go, wow, okay. So my only worry about that is if we try to make it too, If we over produce it, I think was the word I was looking for. And just, just let it be authentic. Let it be
[00:40:28] Vicki Cantrell: authentic, messy, let it be. Yes.
[00:40:31] Jeff Roster: you were the one Vicky at, when you were at Tori Birch, I think you were talking about, were at, at some conference you were talking about like a, a fashion show or something you did where you had nutty response, I mean, crazy responses, right?
[00:40:44] Vicki Cantrell: Yes, because we, we did this test where we had such brand advocates.
[00:40:49] Okay.
[00:40:50] And it was. Path. I can't remember the name of it. But anyway, we went out to our customers and we made them part of the process novel.
[00:40:59] Here, [00:41:00] here's here's four buttons. Which one do you like? Okay. And they feel so in the know. Yeah. Look, people again, when I, I, I just bang that drum about, it's about people. It's about people, and it's about community. They belong to a community. People wanna belong. That's what they want. Right? Whatever it is, two people, 10 people, 5,000 people, and they became part of an insider community by being asked their opinion. It was extremely powerful. Yeah. And so, Yeah.
[00:41:33] Jeff Roster: I've never, I've never forgotten that story.
[00:41:35] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah.
[00:41:35] Yeah. It's just
[00:41:36] Ricardo Belmar: and just
[00:41:37] so I'll add on to that with one interesting point from one of the sessions today, from the, uh, the gmu consumer study that, that, uh, Gotham has been on the show many times.
[00:41:45] Uh,
[00:41:47] Preview.
[00:41:47] Jeff Roster: I haven't him on my show yet.
[00:41:48] How
[00:41:49] Ricardo Belmar: I don't, well, I don't know
[00:41:50] Jeff Roster: oh man,
[00:41:51] here
[00:41:51] Vicki Cantrell: I can, I
[00:41:52] Ricardo Belmar: can yeah, maybe Vicki can pull some strings for you, Jeff, and get 'em on your. But he's, he's
[00:41:56] kind of been a
[00:41:57] Vicki Cantrell: me. Maybe that would help.[00:42:00]
[00:42:00] Ron Thurston: Wow.
[00:42:00] Ricardo Belmar: be it. But he,
[00:42:02] Jeff Roster: is is full contact
[00:42:03] Ron Thurston: likes me too. He gives my book to his students. He likes
[00:42:06] Ricardo Belmar: me too!
[00:42:06] That's right.
[00:42:06] Yeah. . Here you go. So I think you, you've missed the boat on that one.
[00:42:10] somehow, Jeff.
[00:42:11] Jeff Roster: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:42:12] Ricardo Belmar: So, but he did mention, uh, he had one of those points, if you remember, on, on the data he previewed about,
[00:42:18] Consumer pain points about having a, a, a store associate that wasn't helpful. It just wasn't around right when they wanted them to be.
[00:42:25] Right. That one's, and the reason I bring that one up is because, you know, you, you've been saying this now for, for half of our recorded time, Vicki, about the, that messy connection. Mm-hmm. . Right. And I think, Ron, you may remember, we've talked about this before, with that store associate being the live streamer, because they're the one that has the connection with the customers that shop at that store, which is exactly Jeff's story with B and h. Right? Because you, you know that store , you are a passionate fan of that store. So how could they not get you to buy something through a live stream showing you what it is, what the [00:43:00] product is, when you can't be there in the store to physically touch it?
[00:43:03] So I think that,
[00:43:03] that, to me
[00:43:04] Vicki Cantrell: it doesn't have to be overproduced
[00:43:05] Ricardo Belmar: No.
[00:43:06] It
[00:43:06] just has to be
[00:43:06] Jeff Roster: that's, the
[00:43:07] Vicki Cantrell: because it's people working with people.
[00:43:09] Jeff Roster: and that's the key. And that's, I'm, I'm, I'm, you've gotta tweet out that term messy. If not, I'm stealing it because we need to make that, yeah. The standard. Don't screw this up. Right. Don't overproduce, sorry. Digital media folks, don't overproduce this.
[00:43:26] Vicki Cantrell: Perfect Is the enemy of the good? Yes. good.
[00:43:29] Jeff Roster: Make it clean, make it authentic. Make it honest.
[00:43:33] Ricardo Belmar: And I think the best proof point, and we were all talking about this before. The mics were on, about how many people have we run into on the second day that we're here, that we all felt like we're talking to them for about 10, 15 minutes.
[00:43:43] And so suddenly you realize this is the first time we're meeting in person , because we've only ever seen each other on Zoom calls and teams calls, and all these we're always just bit of square on
[00:43:52] a screen
[00:43:52] But we've done this for so long, now we feel like we have this existing connection
[00:43:56] Ron Thurston: it's true.
[00:43:57] Ricardo Belmar: And, now we're in person.
[00:43:58] But you know, like [00:44:00] Ron, we, we hadn't met in person before.
[00:44:01] Ron Thurston: until Last night. Last night. Mm-hmm. .
[00:44:03] Ricardo Belmar: So that's, to me is the proof point, right? Yeah. you know, that kind of a, I'll call it sounds negative, but I don't mean it to be low production value livestream because it's authentic and
[00:44:15] Vicki Cantrell: Right.
[00:44:15] Ricardo Belmar: It's messy
[00:44:16] Right,
[00:44:16] Vicki Cantrell: right. That's why there's such tremendous buzz. Now that you say that, that's what what I'm thinking, it's a combination of seeing the people you've known forever and being so thrilled.
[00:44:25] Mm-hmm. to see that person. And at the same exact time, seeing a bunch of people that you've never seen in real life, only digitally. So you have this like, uh, information overload.
[00:44:38] Ron Thurston: right? Yes, it's true.
[00:44:39] Vicki Cantrell: I have a, a statement I used to say like, when we were trying to implement systems quickly and let's get it done, I used to say, don't worry, be crappy.
[00:44:48] Mm-hmm. . Okay, and so . So now we could say, don't worry, be crappy because it's authentic.
[00:44:55] Ron Thurston: That's true.
[00:44:56] And
[00:44:56] Vicki Cantrell: add the authentic word. Yeah.
[00:44:58] Ron Thurston: Authentics a
[00:44:58] good word for sure. It's,
[00:44:59] [00:45:00] Yeah.
[00:45:00] I think the challenge though, with some of that, that I've seen is it's just sometimes one more thing for the store to do. Yeah. So I actually think part of the conversation this week I'd like to hear is, what are you taking out?
[00:45:13] Yes. Not what are you adding to?
[00:45:15] Because it's, they've been asked to do BOPIS. They've been asked to actually do more returns from web. They've been asked sometimes then to livestream. They've been asked to chat from the website. Mm-hmm. , they've been asked to do many different things in stores. Yeah. What are you taking away so that the store can be that much better?
[00:45:32] What can you handle maybe in the office? How do you use staffing in a different way? How do. Hire people just to do livestream. Yeah. You know, so there's a lot of different ways, but adding more because you're in love with the new technology and the store's. Like what the hell?
[00:45:48] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah. Sharon made such a good point about that today.
[00:45:50] Ron Thurston: She did. She
[00:45:51] said
[00:45:51] Vicki Cantrell: you just don't realize that you're, that you're kind of piling on. Okay.
[00:45:56] And you know, when's relative when you get to, um, [00:46:00] economic hard times and people are being laid off this, one of my least favorite sayings in the world is do more with less. Okay. And I've always said, no, that's not what you transitioned to.
[00:46:13] you, do less with less is what you do because there's always something to give up that does not hurt you. You just aren't thinking, you're not having innovation of thought. Okay. You're not looking at those things, those ham theory things that say, oh, why do you do that? Because I've always done it. So do less with less.
[00:46:32] Mm-hmm.
[00:46:33] Ron Thurston: Mm-hmm. . And if
[00:46:33] you have less, maybe your budget is different in 2023. Right. What are your most important priorities Exactly. That are great for your team and great for your customer. And maybe you can't have everything you always dreamed of. Mm-hmm. , maybe this is not the year for it.
[00:46:47] Right. And that's okay. , it's okay. Yeah. But you should still come to an NRF show, learn what's happening. To your point, Jeff. Mm-hmm. don't be one of those brands that didn't pay attention and we're seeing the news, those that are not making it right. They didn't [00:47:00] pay attention. So pay attention, but maybe you don't execute everything in 2023.
[00:47:05] Right. And I think it's a thought process that I'm not sure all retailers do. I think they come here sometimes looking for that, all the ideas, and then want to execute all of them. You know,
[00:47:17] Jeff Roster: Ron, you're the only voice in this industry for the store associate. I, I'm trying to think of, right.
[00:47:22] Is there anybody out there that would've just said what you just said, ? And the answer is no. I never would've said it because it it, I mean, I'm not a, I, I mean, I grew up in a store. I, well, I grew up with a World War II combat veteran father who, who would say you will absolutely do more with less. Because I did during the Great Depression, but he's not the most scalable person, so you're the only voice that's really even speaking to that.
[00:47:45] And how important is that? What can you take off the plate? Because it's just, it's crazy.
[00:47:50] Ron Thurston: crazy. And it, it doesn't always mean that you want to do less. Sometimes you need to do more or just, but I think it's, it, it's that point earlier. [00:48:00] Listen, learn. What does the customer asking for? What does the team need?
[00:48:04] And then make a decision based on what you've heard, not the other way around. Right? Don't come to a conference call or to a, a big video call and say, guess what? I went to NRF and we're going into the Metaverse and you have, please don't say it, it's 300 stores on the call going. Okay. I can't even be on this call right now because I need to go ring some customers up, you know?
[00:48:25] So I think there's this sometimes like misconception. Yeah. Um, and thank you for saying that, Jeff. I just
[00:48:31] think
[00:48:32] Jeff Roster: I just, it's just, you're such an important voice out there and you're the only voice out there.
[00:48:36] Ron Thurston: Okay. Yeah.
[00:48:38] And which is odd to me, you know, as someone just because I, I came from stores, but if 80% of your revenue.
[00:48:45] You know, comes from the store. 80% of the conversation should be about stores, in my opinion. Yeah. And it's not, it's not always the sexiest part, and it's the hardest
[00:48:54] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.
[00:48:55] Jeff Roster: know
[00:48:55] what? I have never
[00:48:56] thought of that
[00:48:57] Vicki Cantrell: before. Yeah,
[00:48:58] Ron Thurston: yeah.
[00:48:58] Jeff Roster: Because I am willing to [00:49:00] bet in technology, 60 to 70% of the conversations around e-commerce.
[00:49:05] Because it's all technology driven.
[00:49:07] Ron Thurston: right? Yeah. I heck,
[00:49:08] Jeff Roster: don't know how we would analyze
[00:49:09] that. Yeah. But I, it's gotta be that case. I've never thought about it in that regards
[00:49:12] Ron Thurston: before and most of those people don't come from stores. Right. So I think that there's this sometimes, you know, and I do believe in this, and sure, Vicky would back me up.
[00:49:23] Sometimes there's a lack of knowledge about the store because if you don't come from the store, you're uncomfortable in the environment. Yes. You actually don't know what questions to ask
[00:49:31] Vicki Cantrell: And you think it's easier than it, than it is.
[00:49:33] Ron Thurston: That's exactly right. Right. So I would host often, you know, executive teams, or I would say to the office here in Times Square, I'm gonna be in Madison Avenue every Tuesday morning at nine.
[00:49:43] before you come in, meet me at the store to 150 people in the office, right? I'll be there every day. I will answer all of your questions. I will walk you through the store. Uh, you don't have to do anything except listen to the team and I'll lead the conversation. I could buyers, planners, finance [00:50:00] it, everybody.
[00:50:01] My, my own store team would come and listen and learn, but I did all the work for them cuz what happens?
[00:50:08] people go into stores, they don't actually know what questions
[00:50:10] Vicki Cantrell: Not a clue.
[00:50:11] Ron Thurston: Right? They
[00:50:11] don't know. It's a way like, how's your business? Well read the flash. Like, you don't need me to do that. So I think that there's this almost fear, there's a fear of the store.
[00:50:22] Yeah.
[00:50:22] Mm-hmm. that I'm personally trying to break down.
[00:50:25] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.
[00:50:26] Jeff Roster: Yeah.
[00:50:26] Well, you know what's funny about that? So I, I really, a once I left my dad's operation and went off to college, um, I really was never in the store spot. I was in distribution and what do we have every year in distribution? We had a thing called inventory. And guess what we used to get to get, oh, we got all the people from the front office coming to.
[00:50:43] Ron Thurston: help us
[00:50:44] Jeff Roster: and guess what we did about three days after -Unfix or fix all the help. So I, I was just thinking that, you know, I could really relate to
[00:50:53] that. The last thing
[00:50:54] you wanna see is, hey, we're from the upfront office,
[00:50:56] Ron Thurston: we're here to
[00:50:56] help.
[00:50:57] No, they, they're very proud that they work in stores on black Friday. [00:51:00] They're exactly, they're very proud of
[00:51:01] Vicki Cantrell: Yes.
[00:51:01] Ron Thurston: Holding down the
[00:51:02] Jeff Roster: turmoil.
[00:51:05] Ron Thurston: No, it's true.
[00:51:05] Yeah.
[00:51:06] Jeff Roster: Let's
[00:51:07] put people, uh, in a high stress environment where everyone's on edge.
[00:51:11] Oh, it's funny.
[00:51:12] Ron Thurston: Yeah.
[00:51:12] Jeff Roster: So funny.
[00:51:14] Oh, yay.
[00:51:15] Yayy.
[00:51:15] Ricardo Belmar: Well,
[00:51:15] I, I'm gonna throw out one last thing for us to get some opinions on because maybe the, the final piece that I think we are going to hear more about, because the couple of conferences I've been to last year, this came up, uh, and it's been an, a pattern in a trend, and that's retailers doing more B2B kind of services than just selling to consumers to, because it goes right, you know, it's a high margin. Helps with the revenue might not be a lot, certainly not in the kind of com transactional volume you get from your stores, but taking things that you're good at as a retailer, bundling them up, selling it to other retailers. I'm seeing a lot of that. I, I think I, I have to believe we're gonna hear and see a good amount of, of noise about and buzz about that at N R [00:52:00] NRF this week.
[00:52:00] Ron Thurston: Hmm.
[00:52:01] Vicki Cantrell: I think that, uh, there's a couple themes there that, that play into that. Okay. First of all, it's, this is the best industry in the world and the most resilient, and the most creative, and the most agile because you are dealing with that customer and every day is different. For a retailer, every day is different.
[00:52:21] I don't know how else to say it. It's the truth, right? So since every day is different for, uh, a retailer, okay. In this world, nobody is doing anything by themselves. You can't be successful by yourself. This is why I talk about partnerships, right? Because what we've seen is the tech world coming together, spot solutions.
[00:52:47] Let me add on to this. I can help you. , look at the partner networks. They've grown and grown and grown like crazy. Right? Right. And and same thing with people thinking more partnership oriented. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . [00:53:00] I've just gotten to the point where no one can do it alone. Yeah. And they shouldn't. Yeah. And I think that is at crux of this is, yeah, look, if I can't build it, let's go find it.
[00:53:11] Let's work together. So
[00:53:13] Ron Thurston: yeah, I would agree with that.
[00:53:15] Jeff Roster: Well, I've always said, I think technology and retail is much more expensive than it needs to be because everything is competitive advantage, so we can't share anything.
[00:53:22] So everything has to be custom developed. You don't see that in other
[00:53:25] Vicki Cantrell: Nope. Yeah,
[00:53:25] Jeff Roster: in manufacturing, they're all, I mean, the CEOs are all
[00:53:28] engineers. You're right.
[00:53:29] I mean, they just, they just like, okay, if, if we all design a better drill rig, let's just compete on who can get the, you know, raw materials to market.
[00:53:37] Let's not compete on, Hey, I've got a, you know, A unique drill thing. I mean, it's just, it's crazy. When I, when I used to try to explain how retail operated inside my Gartner colleagues in other verticals, it was like they would look at us like, you are out of your mind, you're out of your minds.
[00:53:55] Ron Thurston: Um, wow.
[00:53:56] Jeff Roster: and I get why we are, I mean, in some ways because we, I mean [00:54:00] we are the, the, we saw it in March and April of 2020 how thin the line of civilization is, it's one, it's one grocery, uh, supply chain. And if that supply chain would've crumbled, if, if the truckers would've said, Hey, listen, everyone's cutting and running and we're gonna cut and run too, we'd be, we'd be having a different conversation right now.
[00:54:20] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah,
[00:54:21] Jeff Roster: Um, but, you know, let's just. Let's just maybe compete on doing better business and not necessarily on, I've designed conveyor some ways, you know, super unique. We'd be a better industry if we would would do that. We'd be, we'd be buying technology at a cheaper rate
[00:54:37] Vicki Cantrell: Yes, sure. Yes, yes.
[00:54:38] Ron Thurston: And I would argue that we're much more similar than we are different, of course, in many ways. And I think that's also often missed, that everyone thinks that their business is so special. Yeah. And, and they're not, you may you sell something different.
[00:54:52] Yeah. But the core of actually how this industry operates is not that different. And I do think we have to be more open to learn. Open to [00:55:00] listen, open to, you're right. Maybe it's, I, I buy it instead of developing it. Right. I don't hire someone or you do it in a popup and I learn how to do it uniquely. But I do think we, we.
[00:55:12] There's something, I don't know, Jeff, if you agree, there's something that we feel in this industry for every brand I've worked for, that no one does it as well as we do.
[00:55:21] we're the best at it. And therefore I'm not gonna share my secrets. Exactly. And I, I'd like to like break that down a little.
[00:55:27] Jeff Roster: They're not secrets though, that's the thing. It's, it's like, you know, it's like, what is it? Um, uh, the emperor has no clothes. I mean, come on. It's, it's
[00:55:35] software. The people that benefit from that. And it's a bit heresy cuz these are some of my clients, but it's the consultancies who. Get, get, have gotten away with, you know, mass customization. And so if we could just absorb technology, and by the way, a lot of software companies say, listen, just accept code at base and you know, you, you'll drive the cost down.
[00:55:53] We'll be able to refresh what, and, you know, so it's, it's that whole mind shift
[00:55:57] Vicki Cantrell: Look, remember, people are always gonna protect their [00:56:00] turf.
[00:56:00] Jeff Roster: Hundred percent.
[00:56:01] Vicki Cantrell: And when you think, not, not just from a brand perspective, but think about the infrastructure that's inside retail, where you have the heads of departments, okay? and, and when we tried to break down those silos okay. And get the communities to work together, cuz they have to do that to, to, have a great business.
[00:56:21] It's, people are very protective about their, whatever it knowledge,
[00:56:26] their, their unique knowledge, their power, their salary, their,
[00:56:30] you know, it's, it just goes to your core. And again, when you understand the person, you can deal with it in a, in a better way, but, You know, where that comes from is the protection of not what's mine.
[00:56:44] And, and then I've seen where each person thinks about it differently. A marketer's gonna be extremely protective.
[00:56:51] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.
[00:56:51] Vicki Cantrell: a digital person is much more open and free about, so, , how you were raised in the industry is really [00:57:00] affects how you react and how you are seeing all the groups together.
[00:57:05] They all have, CIOs have a very different personality. I'm not saying anything up or down, I'm just saying they all have a different
[00:57:11] Ricardo Belmar: personal, different
[00:57:12] Jeff Roster: That's right,
[00:57:13] That's fair
[00:57:13] Vicki Cantrell: They all totally valid and why and reason of how they grew up in the industry and now they're all. . Everybody has to work together. So it's, you're getting to the core of humanity.
[00:57:26] Ron Thurston: Hmm. Wow. That's deep. . It is
[00:57:32] Jeff Roster: and only only day two .
[00:57:33] Ron Thurston: That's true.
[00:57:34] Ricardo Belmar: And we're just getting started. Yeah.
[00:57:36] Jeff Roster: But we're we're just getting started.
[00:57:38] Ricardo Belmar: That is probably a good place to wrap it up. What do you think, Jeff?
[00:57:41] Jeff Roster: Fantastic
[00:57:41] I think so
[00:57:42] kick
[00:57:42] off I think so. Some of us have a San Francisco 49ers game to go watch
[00:57:46] Vicki Cantrell: along. Yes. .Some of us have to go to the next thing. .
[00:57:50] Ron Thurston: That's Yes, we
[00:57:50] Ricardo Belmar: right. There's a lot of
[00:57:51] next things. for the next few days,
[00:57:54] Well,
[00:57:54] Vicky, Ron, thanks so much for joining Jeff,
[00:57:57] and myself to kick off this series. I can't think of two better [00:58:00] people we could have asked to join us for a great retail conversation.
[00:58:03] Jeff Roster: yeah
[00:58:03] Vicki Cantrell: This was very fun.
[00:58:04] Jeff Roster: We need
[00:58:04] Ron Thurston: there, yeah,
[00:58:05] Jeff Roster: like a little mini Ron podcast studio that we could tow
[00:58:09] Ron Thurston: tell
[00:58:09] Ricardo Belmar: right? That's
[00:58:10] right.
[00:58:10] Jeff Roster: Little foot wide Airstream. That would
[00:58:12] Ricardo Belmar: the mini air stream to go
[00:58:14] Ron Thurston: It's, it's more glamorous than this little conference room, that's for sure
[00:58:17] Jeff Roster: tell you gosh, Ron, you
[00:58:20] I can't see an Airstream. I, every Airstream I see, I think of you. And there's an Airstream dealership in Morgan Hill too. And I, every time I go by that, I go, Ron over there, good good job, man.
[00:58:30] Ron Thurston: Thank you. Just Thank you
[00:58:32] . Thank you Thank you very much.
[00:58:34] Jeff Roster: well done
[00:58:36] Ron Thurston: thank you, Ricardo.
[00:58:36] Ricardo Belmar: Thank you. Thanks everybody. Jeff, until the next one.
[00:58:39] Jeff Roster: Yeah, day three.
[00:58:40] Ricardo Belmar: Let's
[00:58:40] day three. Let's
[00:58:40] go.
[00:58:41]
[00:58:48] Show Close
[00:58:48] Casey Golden: Welcome back everyone. Damn, you didn't oversell that intro. Ricardo. Killer discussion. I didn't even notice how long it was. It just had [00:59:00] me wanting more and wishing I was in the room.
[00:59:04] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, well, like I said, it, it's definitely getting my vote right now for best episode we've ever done. I mean, there, there, there's something to be said for capturing these kind of conversations in person, in a really small room among friends, and just a completely open discussion.
[00:59:18] Casey Golden: Well, I hope our listeners and viewers enjoyed that. I know I did. I really wish I had been there, but next time.
[00:59:26] Ricardo Belmar: Next time. Yep. And I'm, I'm sure this will not be the last time that you see this group get together for a chat. You can count on that and we'll, we'll, we'll bring them back for, for more in the future.
[00:59:36] Casey Golden: So for those of you paying attention, if you caught our other Rethink Retail friend in the background, well, if you've guessed it, Julia, Raymond . You'd be right. Julia was watching through the glass outside the conference room, taking a few pics. I bet she didn't expect you guys would be there so long either.
[00:59:58] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, that's so true. [01:00:00] That is so true. I'm sure she didn't think it would be quite that long. . Well, Casey, I think this wraps us up for the first part of our N R F Live mini-series.
[01:00:09] Casey Golden: Indeed it does. Stay tuned everyone for the rest of the series and be sure to catch the fun not only on the podcast, but also This Week in I nnovation hosted by Jeff Roster. Ricardo, that's a wrap.
[01:00:23] If you enjoyed the show, please consider giving us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcast. Remember to smash that subscribe button in your favorite podcast player so you don't miss a minute. Wanna know more about what we talked about today? Take a look at the show notes for handy links and more deets.
[01:00:46] I'm your co-host, Casey Golden.
[01:00:48] Ricardo Belmar: And if you'd like to learn more about us and stay connected, follow us on Twitter at Casey c Golden and Ricardo underscore Belmar, or find us on LinkedIn. Be sure and follow the show on Twitter, at Retail Razor, on LinkedIn, [01:01:00] and on our YouTube channel for the latest updates and content.
[01:01:02] I'm your host Ricardo Belmar.
[01:01:05] Casey Golden: Thanks for joining us.
[01:01:06]
[01:01:06] Ricardo Belmar: And remember, there's never been a better time to be in retail if you cut through the clutter. Until next time, this is the Retail Razor Show.