Doomscroll with Joshua Citarella

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Doomscroll 35: Grimes

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Nov 17, 2025

Guest

Grimes

In this engaging discussion, Grimes, the innovative artist and musician, dives into the interplay between AI and social media. She warns against outsourcing our thinking to AI, highlighting potential risks for younger generations. Grimes also explores how online art movements shape political discourse and critiques the ethical implications of AI-generated content. From her new album's artistic choices to the need for digital hygiene in education, she shares her vision of art's role in navigating modern complexities. Plus, she advocates for a creative renaissance amidst cancel culture.

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ANECDOTE

Using Chinese Waifu Tools During Production

Grimes recounts using Chinese apps for waifu generation because ethical limits were lower and outputs stronger.
She observed those apps' reduced guardrails on nudity and training data during the video's production.

insights

INSIGHT

Public-Private Imbalance Hinders Governance

The US public-private model has hollowed out state capacity while tech firms gained outsized economic power.
That imbalance makes meaningful regulation difficult and creates an impasse on AI governance.

volunteer_activism

ADVICE

Mobilize Artists To Shape Public Values

Organize cultural leaders to shift public priorities on issues like microplastics and AI harms.
Grimes suggests mobilizing high-profile artists to make topics socially urgent and shame inaction.

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Concerns About Outsourcing Thinking to AI

00:36 • 2min

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AI Erotica, Market Pressures, and Social Effects

02:40 • 3min

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Reintegrating Social Values and Education for Digital Hygiene

05:37 • 2min

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Interpreting the 'Artificial Angels' Video Opening

07:22 • 2min

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AI Safety, Geopolitics, and the Risk of Extinction

09:11 • 3min

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If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies? Debating Inevitable Outcomes

12:28 • 2min

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Using AI Tools in Art and the Ethics of Training Data

14:40 • 4min

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AI's Downsides: Deepfakes, MLK Misuses, and Cultural Damage

19:07 • 2min

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Avant-Garde Artists Shaping Political Visions

21:00 • 5min

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Celebrity Activism, Influence, and the Limits of Boycott

25:50 • 2min

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Where Contemporary Meaningful Art Lives

27:48 • 2min

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Worldcoin, Identity, and the Vision of Stateless Infrastructure

29:53 • 2min

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Technology, Embodiment, and Community Decline

32:11 • 2min

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Web 2's Dopaminergic Design vs. Early Internet Gatekeeping

34:06 • 2min

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Reading Visual Easter Eggs: Arena, Charlie, and Marketizing Tragedy

36:32 • 4min

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Creative Renaissance After Peak Wackness

40:27 • 1min

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Live Coding, Sound Design, and New Musical Frontiers

41:29 • 3min

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Cognitohazards, Psychohazards, and Protecting Mental Safety

44:42 • 3min

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Interpreting the 'Artificial Angels' Promo Imagery

48:02 • 2min

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Redaction, Deepfake Theories, and Clarifying Intent

49:52 • 1min

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Annie the Assassin: Ambiguity and Moral Lines

50:58 • 2min

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Public Statements on AI Existential Risk

53:03 • 3min

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Proposing Strategy Over Panic: Deployment, Clocks, and Data Centers

55:43 • 1min

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Artistic License, Provocation, and Political Adjacency

57:06 • 2min

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Engaging Across Political Divides as an Artist

59:12 • 5min

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Digital Freeing: Cancel Culture, Leaks, and Creative Freedom

01:04:29 • 41sec

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Artists as Social Bridges and the Role of Aesthetics in Politics

01:05:10 • 4min

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Guilt by Association: Curtis Yarvin and Interpretation Risks

01:09:00 • 3min

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Using AI in the Album and Video Production

01:12:24 • 2min

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Internet Subcultures, Memes, and Canonizing New Art Forms

01:14:34 • 4min

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Noise Shows, Social Sorting, and Finding Community

01:18:40 • 3min

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Early Tech Influences and Growing into AI Thought

01:21:20 • 2min

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Surface Detail and Fiction That Makes AI Palatable

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If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies

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Nate Soares

This book delves into the potential risks of advanced artificial intelligence, arguing that the development of superintelligence could lead to catastrophic consequences for humanity. The authors present a compelling case for the need for careful consideration and regulation of AI development. They explore various scenarios and potential outcomes, emphasizing the urgency of addressing the challenges posed by rapidly advancing AI capabilities. The book is written in an accessible style, making complex ideas understandable to a broad audience. It serves as a call to action, urging policymakers and researchers to prioritize AI safety and prevent potential existential threats.

My guest is Grimes, an artist and musician. We discuss the profound impacts of social media and AI, her new album and the role of art during periods of political transformation.

In the 20th century, artists served as an avant-garde. Movements on both the left and right, such as the Bauhaus or Italian Futurism, offered radical new visions for a modernizing society. In the 21st century, we see a similar dynamic emerge through online folk art such as memes and other digital content. Later, we explore the complex references and symbolism throughout the Artificial Angels music video and official album artwork.

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