The Spiritual Life with Fr. James Martin, S.J. Kathleen Norris on treating spiritual dryness, jealousy, and bad thoughts
Mar 3, 2026
Conversation about Benedictine monastic life, hospitality, and how liturgy shapes daily faith. Exploration of the desert fathers and mothers, their approach to bad thoughts, and the psychology of acedia. A memoir about a sister with a developmental disability and the family dynamics around jealousy and care. Reflections on finding a spiritual home and the role of beauty in worship.
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Bad Thoughts Not Sin Reframes Moral Life
- The Desert Fathers and Mothers reframed moral struggle as 'bad thoughts' and passions rather than labeling people as sinful.
- Kathleen Norris highlights this frees people to examine origins of anger or jealousy and choose nonviolent responses instead.
Monastery Retreat Sparked The Cloister Walk
- Norris discovered a Benedictine monastery in South Dakota and immersed herself in daily psalm prayer as an oblate, transforming her spiritual practice.
- She stayed in guest rooms, prayed the Psalms with monks, and later wrote The Cloister Walk from that yearlong immersion.
How An Egg Question Triggered A Book
- A simple moment at Collegeville—asking a visiting monk how he liked his eggs—became the book's inciting insight about undervalued monastic lives.
- Norris realized learned, credentialed monks go unasked ordinary questions, prompting her to write about them.
