Today on the flagship podcast of sustainable supply chain economics:

03:27 - CEO of Nothing Carl Pei sits down with The Verge’s David Pierce to discuss the new Phone 2, Carl’s vision for the company, his thoughts on AI, foldables, VR, and much more.

Nothing Phone 2 review: the vibes abide
Nothing CEO Carl Pei on the Phone 2, AI, and the future of gadgets (video version of interview here)

50:02 - Later, Vergecast producers Andru Marino and Liam James debate with David the best and worst TV remotes, and what makes a good remote design. Watch the YouTube version to see all the remotes we talk about.

1:25:19 - Keep listening for the Vergecast Hotline question of the week.

Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you.

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Nothing’s gadget renaissance, and our favorite TV remotes