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Michael Shellenberger on ICE Protests, Censorship Threats, and His Radical Past in Venezuela

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Jan 16, 2026

Guest

Michael Shellenberger

Michael Shellenberger, a journalist and author noted for his insights on energy and free speech, shares his fascinating journey from radicalism to advocacy. He discusses the psychology behind modern activism and critiques anti-ICE protests, emphasizing their lack of genuine problem-solving. Reflecting on his experiences in Venezuela, he highlights the corrupting nature of socialism. Shellenberger also addresses the dangers of censorship and the role of elites in controlling information, advocating for a strong defense of free speech in today’s polarized landscape.

02:32:49

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ANECDOTE

Brief Role Advising Hugo Chávez

Shellenberger briefly worked for Hugo Chávez advising on a Washington Post op-ed urging respect for a referendum's outcome.
He left as communist elements and authoritarian tendencies grew within Chávez's coalition.

insights

INSIGHT

Communism Reverts To Patronage And Gangsterism

Shellenberger argues communism reverts societies to tribal, patronage-based systems where corruption and gangsterism thrive.
He contrasts meritocratic, rule-based Western institutions with pre-modern family-based rackets.

insights

INSIGHT

Trust And Institutions Enable Prosperity

Shellenberger emphasizes institutional trust and anonymity in markets as key to modern prosperity versus family-based favoritism.
He cites Hayek: reverting from liberalism risks returning to feudal or tribal economic dynamics.

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Initial Take on ICE Protest Shooting

00:13 • 1min

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Democratic Party Radicalization

01:36 • 2min

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Protest as Theater and Motivation

03:44 • 2min

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Seeing ICE as Fascist: Activist Mindset

05:20 • 2min

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Immigration Politics and Enforcement Tradeoffs

07:28 • 3min

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Border Policy Swings and Expert Credibility

10:50 • 2min

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Radical Son Origins: 'The Issue Is Never the Issue'

13:06 • 4min

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Why Middle-Aged Women Lead Activism

17:06 • 3min

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Gender Differences, Empathy, and Institutions

20:30 • 6min

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Personal Radicalization: Shellenberger's Entry

26:33 • 7min

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First Trips: Nicaragua and Central America

33:38 • 3min

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Brazil, Lula, and Early Left Enthusiasm

36:12 • 7min

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Is Marxism a Colonial Export?

43:04 • 5min

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Defining Radicalism and Its Inversions

47:40 • 8min

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Working for Hugo Chávez

55:53 • 6min

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Why Communism Becomes Corruption

01:01:56 • 11min

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Liberalism, Globalism, and the Nation's Return

01:13:18 • 5min

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International Law as Myth and Realpolitik

01:18:02 • 4min

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Concerns About Venezuela Intervention

01:22:02 • 8min

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Resource Curse and Governance Failures

01:30:10 • 8min

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Radical Mayors and Urban Politics

01:38:30 • 8min

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Is America Becoming Argentina?

01:46:40 • 6min

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Origins of the Censorship Industrial Complex

01:52:33 • 6min

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Twitter Files, Government Pressure, and NGOs

01:58:30 • 7min

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Free Speech as a Lifelong Cause

02:05:20 • 8min

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Debating Deplatforming and Association

02:13:34 • 12min

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The Left's War on Reality

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I sat down with journalist and author Michael Shellenberger to unpack the psychology of modern radicalism and why anti-ICE activists seem more interested in perpetual agitation than problem-solving. Michael reflects on his own radical past, including his experiences in Nicaragua, Brazil, and Venezuela, where socialist idealism gave way to corruption, gangsterism, and societal collapse. We also discuss his ongoing fight for free speech and the potential global impacts of recent European regulatory attacks on Elon Musk and X (Twitter).

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Follow Michael on X (formerly Twitter): https://x.com/shellenberger?s=20

Read Michael’s work on Substack: https://substack.com/@shellenberger

Preorder a copy of “The Left’s War on Reality”: https://a.co/d/cnMuOGy

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Outline:

[0:00] ICE protest chaos

[13:06] Female psychology and left-wing activism

[30:19] Why Michael got involved in radical politics

[39:54] Interviewing the future President of Brazil

[42:44] Is Marxism a colonial project?

[47:46] What is “radicalism”?

[55:53] Working for Hugo Chávez in Venezuela

[1:01:41] Communism always devolves into gangsterism

[1:10:58] Liberalism, globalism, and nationalism

[1:18:02] Is “international law” a myth?

[1:22:08] Why Michael is skeptical of the Venezuela intervention

[1:31:48] The counterintuitive danger of natural resources

[1:37:13] Zohran Mamdani’s inaugural speech should scare you

[1:52:34] How elites keep mass democracy under control

[1:58:30] The Twitter Files and the next social media crackdown

[2:05:21] Free speech is a cause worth dying for

[2:13:58] Antisemitism, cancellation, and the conservative civil war

[2:24:19] Trump 2.0 proved that censorship can be overcome

[2:29:36] What Michael has learned from teaching

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