Deviate Walk and Talk: Notes from a peripatetic salon across northern Thailand
Apr 16, 2024
Kevin Kelly, futurist and writer who organizes Walk and Talk salons. Liz Danzico, design leader who values creative clarity from walking. Silvia Lindtner, ethnographer studying rural creative migration. Craig Mod, writer/photographer who curates routes and logistics. They discuss why walking sparks ideas, practical planning and pacing, unplugging from devices, vulnerability in conversation, and how walking reshapes creative practice.
01:09:30
Walking Creates A Unique Idea-Generating State
- Walking unlocks a unique cognitive state that lets you empty older thoughts and be receptive to new ideas.
- Kevin Kelly links the biological rhythm of walking to clearer thinking and pacing while writing.
Daytime Chatter Primes Deep Nightly Intimacy
- The format intensifies intimacy because daytime chatter primes everyone for one deep nightly conversation.
- Craig Mod: by hearing everyone speak across days you often know them more intimately than many friends.
Moderate Evening Conversations Firmly
- Moderate evening dinners tightly: one topic, one moderator, prompt quieter voices and tamp down dominators.
- Craig Mod and Kevin said a strong moderator (often Kevin) is required to keep a single-topic Jeffersonian conversation productive.
Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode
Get the app 1 chevron_right 2 chevron_right 3 chevron_right 4 chevron_right 5 chevron_right 6 chevron_right 7 chevron_right 8 chevron_right 9 chevron_right 10 chevron_right 11 chevron_right 12 chevron_right 13 chevron_right 14 chevron_right 15 chevron_right 16 chevron_right 17 chevron_right 18 chevron_right 19 chevron_right 20 chevron_right
Intro
00:00 • 4min
Kevin Kelly explains the Walk and Talk concept
03:34 • 2min
Why walking uniquely sparks ideas
05:50 • 4min
How to organize a Walk and Talk
09:24 • 4min
Navigation, getting lost, and embracing detours
13:41 • 1min
Liz Danzico on why she joined the walk
14:59 • 4min
Disconnecting from devices improves presence
19:10 • 2min
Could Liz replicate this ritual?
21:02 • 2min
Rolf considers adapting Walk and Talk to Kansas
23:04 • 5min
Silvia Lindtner on Chinese creatives moving rural
27:39 • 6min
Silvia on the walk's openness and vulnerability
33:29 • 4min
Evening topics: home and life stages
37:27 • 2min
Silvia applying Walk and Talk professionally
39:54 • 6min
Daniel Pink on group dynamics and structure
45:58 • 5min
Permission to drift between conversations
51:05 • 2min
Craig Mod on curation and logistics
53:10 • 5min
Why Walk and Talks resist commercialization
58:10 • 2min
Practical route choices and pacing advice
01:00:03 • 3min
Walking as presence and slow travel
01:03:20 • 5min
Outro
01:08:43 • 27sec
#99896
The Glorious Boredom of My Walk in Japan
Craig Mod
Craig Mod narrates his lengthy walk along historic Japanese routes, focusing on how prolonged walking cultivates boredom that opens space for creativity and observation.
He blends travel reportage with philosophical reflection on movement, attention, and place.
The essay explores how shedding digital distractions and slowing down enables richer encounters with landscapes and people.
Mod connects the physical rhythm of walking to mental processes of making and noticing.
The piece serves as both travelogue and meditation on the relationship between movement and creative practice.
#68246
The vulnerable observer
Ruth Behar
Ruth Behar advocates for an ethnography that acknowledges the researcher's emotions, subjectivity, and personal stakes in the field.
She challenges the detached observer model, proposing that vulnerability can enrich anthropological insight and ethical engagement.
Through essays and reflections, Behar explores how personal narrative and reflexivity reveal dimensions of culture often missed by strictly objective approaches.
The book has influenced qualitative researchers by legitimizing emotional honesty and relationality in scholarship.
It remains important for students and practitioners seeking humane, ethical methods in ethnographic work.
#663
• Mentioned in 50 episodes
When
The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing
Daniel Pink
In 'When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing', Daniel H. Pink draws on extensive research from psychology, biology, and economics to show that timing is not an art but a science.
The book explores how to use the hidden patterns of the day to build ideal schedules, why certain breaks improve student test scores, how to turn a poor start into a fresh beginning, and the optimal times for various life decisions such as quitting a job, switching careers, or getting married.
Pink synthesizes this research into a readable narrative with practical takeaways and stories, offering readers compelling insights into how to live richer, more engaged lives.
#877
• Mentioned in 41 episodes
The Death and Life of Great American Cities
Gerd Albers
Jane Jacobs
Published in 1961, 'The Death and Life of Great American Cities' is a seminal work by Jane Jacobs that critiques the urban planning policies of the 1950s.
Jacobs argues against the modernist urban renewal practices that separated uses and led to the decline of city neighborhoods.
She advocates for dense, mixed-use development, walkable streets, and the importance of 'eyes on the street' to maintain public order.
The book emphasizes the complexity of urban life and the need for planning that prioritizes the needs and experiences of residents.
Jacobs uses her own neighborhood, Greenwich Village, as a model for a healthy and vibrant urban environment, contrasting it with the urban renewal projects championed by figures like Robert Moses.
#1140
• Mentioned in 34 episodes
The Power of Regret
How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward
Daniel Pink
In The Power of Regret, Daniel H. Pink delves into the psychology of regret, drawing on extensive research in social psychology, neuroscience, economics, and biology.
He debunks the myth of the 'no regrets' philosophy and argues that regret is a fundamental and valuable emotion.
Pink identifies four core categories of regret: foundation regrets, boldness regrets, moral regrets, and connection regrets.
These categories serve as a 'photographic negative' of the good life, revealing what people value most.
The book provides a three-step process for transforming regrets into positive forces for personal growth and better decision-making.
Pink's work is based on his World Regret Survey, which collected regrets from over 16,000 people in 105 countries, offering practical guidance on how to thrive beyond mistakes and turn regrets into learning opportunities.
#19282
• Mentioned in 3 episodes
Prototype Nation
Silvia M. Lindtner
#224
• Mentioned in 104 episodes
Drive
The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us
Daniel H. Pink
In 'Drive', Daniel Pink explores the three elements of true motivation—autonomy, mastery, and purpose—arguing that these intrinsic factors are more effective than extrinsic rewards in driving high performance and satisfaction.
Drawing on decades of scientific research, Pink offers practical techniques for fostering motivation in personal and professional settings.
#990
• Mentioned in 37 episodes
Excellent Advice for Living
Wisdom I Wish I'd Known Earlier
Kevin Kelly
Excellent Advice for Living is a compilation of Kevin Kelly's life wisdom, initially written for his young adult children on his 68th birthday.
The book features 450 aphorisms that cover a wide range of topics, from setting ambitious goals and optimizing generosity to cultivating compassion and practical advice on career, relationships, parenting, and finances.
Kelly's advice is designed to be accessible and applicable to all ages, emphasizing the importance of kindness, decency, and generosity of spirit.
The book is praised for its straightforward and memorable guidance, making it an ideal companion for anyone seeking to navigate life with grace and creativity.
#11059
• Mentioned in 5 episodes
Kissa by Kissa
Craig Mod
Kissa by Kissa is a book that combines travelogue, photography, and cultural studies as Craig Mod walks the ancient Nakasendō highway from Tokyo to Kyoto.
The book focuses on the vanishing kissaten cafes and the cultural significance of pizza toast in post-war Japan.
It is a beautifully crafted volume with photographs and essays that reflect on the human and cultural geography encountered during his journey.
#3403
• Mentioned in 14 episodes
Things Become Other Things
Craig Mod
Things Become Other Things blends memoir and travel writing, recounting a 300-mile walk on Japan's Kumano Kodō routes.
The journey reflects on the author's childhood, experiences as an adoptee, and his relocation to Japan, while exploring history, literature, and spirituality in rural Japan.
The book is a poignant exploration of personal growth and cultural insight.
“Something about the motion of walking is conducive to generating both ideas and conversation. You can empty your mind and open your mind at the same time.” —Kevin Kelly
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reports from a “Walk and Talk” across northern Thailand. Interviewees and conversation topics are listed by time-code below. Participant write-ups about (or alluding to) the 2023 Thailand Walk and Talk include:
- The Walk and Talk: Everything We Know, by Craig Mod
- Walk and Talk: Everything We Know (PDF document), by Kevin Kelly
- Walking the Heck out of Thailand, by Craig Mod
- Walk and Talk, by Derek Sivers
- Expanding Home, by Liz Danzico
- Where Do You Call Home?, by Jason Kottke
- 2023: Walking, by Dan Wang
- Why Not Pay Teachers $100,000 a Year?, by Daniel Pink
Kevin Kelly (4:00-15:00)
Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a photographer, writer, and futurist, with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. His newest book is Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier.
- Travel can be a way to see the future (Deviate episode)
- Kevin Kelly on the lost world of 1970s Asia (Deviate episode)
- Wired (technology magazine)
- The Cotswolds (region in central Southwest England)
Liz Danzico (15:00-27:45)
Liz Danzico is VP of Design at Microsoft, and the Founding Chair of the MFA Interaction Design Program at the School of Visual Arts.
- Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode)
- The Death and Life of Great American Cities, by Jane Jacobs (book)
- Lets Drift (Kenyan hiking club)
- Hoka (brand of walking shoes)
Silvia Lindtner (27:45-46:00)
Silvia Lindtner is a writer, ethnographer, and Associate Professor at the University of Michigan. Her book Prototype Nation: China and the Contested Promise of Innovation was published by Princeton University Press in 2020.
- Seeking rural places (Deviate episode)
- Jiangxi (Chinese province)
- Guangdong (Chinese province)
- Yunnan (Chinese province)
- Salzburg (city in Austria)
- The Vulnerable Observer, by Ruth Behar (book)
- Anna Greenspan (media professor)
- Communitas (unstructured community of equals)
Daniel Pink (46:00-52:00)
Daniel Pink is a best-selling author of books on work, business, and life. His “Why Not?” project in collaboration with the Washington Post to aims to jolt America’s imagination about possibilities.
- When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing, by Daniel Pink (book)
- Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us, by Daniel Pink (book)
- The Power of Regret, by Daniel Pink (book)
(Craig Mod (52:00-69:00)
Craig Mod is an author and photographer who has written and photographed about his walks across Japan, his love of pizza toast, and his life in Japan.
- Walk Japan (tour company)
- Rich Roll (ultra-endurance athlete)
- The Glorious Boredom of My Walk in Japan, by Craig Mod (essay)
- Kissa by Kissa, by Craig Mod (book)
- Things Become Other Things, by Craid Mod (book)
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.