354 — Plant Medicines: Magic or Doors to Healing With Payam

14 snips

Jul 15, 2025

The discussion delves into the rising acceptance of psychedelic medicines in addressing deep emotional challenges. Payam shares personal experiences of trauma and highlights the risks of using these substances merely as quick fixes. The conversation emphasizes the importance of relational safety and the need for intentional healing work. They explore the transformative power of facing one's darkness while stressing the necessity of respecting the origins and applications of plant medicines in the healing journey.

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ADVICE

Charge Fairly for Healing Work

Charge a fair rate for therapeutic services to instill client seriousness and respect.
Higher fees often lead to better client commitment and deeper engagement in their healing.

ADVICE

Prepare Clients Thoroughly

Prepare clients physically, energetically, and emotionally before plant medicine ceremonies.
Gradually ease them into the experience to ensure safety and optimal healing.

INSIGHT

Importance of Relational Safety

Relational safety is critical for trauma survivors to relax and engage in healing.
Even simple acts of help can calm the nervous system and foster trust.

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If you’ve watched the news lately, the pharmaceutical world is beginning to embrace the use of psychedelic medicines as a safer and more effective means to treat deep emotional challenges. That’s the good news…

However, are people using these ancestral medicines like allopathic medicines to bypass the deeper work they truly need that can create real pathways to personal growth and lasting healing?

Payam, a renowned international master of psychedelic medicines, describes the real and false promises of these medicines and how they can be used wisely to heal the wounded child within all of us this week on Spirit Gym.

Learn more about Payam and his practice at his website.

For Spirit Gym listeners: Payam is offering a free 30-minute consultation to all Spirit Gym listeners. Complete the form near the bottom of this page and mention that you heard him on this podcast to sign up for this special gift. Plus, if you’re already a Spirit Gym member, look for a special Q&A session with Payam soon!

Timestamps

3:37 Payam offers an invocation to begin his conversation with Paul.

6:52 A life of suffering and trauma from a very young age was the emotional baseline for Payam.

10:09 The start to becoming a medical doctor is turning off the human heart machine.

13:06 Treating psychedelics like allopathic medicines.

23:47 Healing the thorn in our soul.

32:52 Insight (synthetic) medicines (ketamine, MDMA) versus organic (spirit) medicines (Huachuma).

42:48 The importance of relational safety.

48:10 “All it takes is a kiss to get there.”

51:30 The false promises of plant medicines.

1:02:09 Payam’s recent lesson from the spirits: Cloud people and earth people.

1:19:16 The mark of a great man and his butterfly effect on the world.

1:23:32 The knives that were Payam’s first teachers.

1:32:30 Medicines Payam uses with his clients.

1:40:18 “The question isn’t not why (drug) addiction but why the pain?”

1:51:13 All of us are wounded children…

Resources

The work of Dr. Gabor Maté

Paul’s Spirit Gym conversation with Greg Schmaus

Reality +: Virtual Worlds and the Problems of Philosophy by David Chalmers

The Web of Meaning: Integrating Science and Traditional Wisdom to Find Our Place in the Universe by Jeremy Lent

Music Credit: Meet Your Heroes (444Hz) by Brave as Bears

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