Chasing Entropy Podcast [Season 2 episode 002]: Allie Mellen on Code War and The Real Logic Behind Cyber Conflict

Cyber conflict makes more sense when you stop treating it like a technical sideshow and start looking at history, doctrine, and political intent. In this episode of Chasing Entropy, Dave Lewis sits down with analyst and author Allie Mellen to discuss the ideas behind her book Code War, and why the cyber strategies of the United States, China, and Russia reflect much older national patterns.

Mellen’s central argument is clear. Cyber attacks are powerful, but not because they replace conventional force. They matter most when they are coordinated with military action, intelligence work, and influence campaigns. That thread runs through the whole conversation, from the Gulf War to Russia’s war in Ukraine. The point is not that cyber stands alone. The point is that cyber becomes far more effective when it is part of a larger campaign with a defined objective.

That framing leads to one of the episode’s strongest ideas, history still shapes how nations operate online. Mellen traces the US approach back to a culture of experimentation and technical tinkering. China’s cyber ecosystem grew out of hacktivism and state-linked talent pipelines. Russia’s path was shaped by post-Soviet collapse, where cybercrime became tied to survival and later overlapped with state interests. Those origins still show up in how these countries organize teams, define targets, and pursue advantage.

The conversation also pushes back on the way cyber conflict is usually portrayed. Pop culture tends to reduce it to a screen full of code and a few elite operators. Mellen argues that this misses the real story. Cybersecurity is technical, but the motivations behind cyber campaigns are understandable. Power, leverage, coordination, survival, influence. Those are not obscure concepts. They are the same forces that shape conflict everywhere else. One of the more memorable examples in the episode is her explanation of how WarGames helped push US policymakers to take computer security seriously in the 1980s. Public narratives matter, even when they get the details wrong.

Another key theme is attribution. Mellen argues that defenders need to understand who is behind an operation, not just what malware was used. Attribution helps explain motivation, likely targets, and what may come next. That matters for governments, but it also matters for enterprises building realistic threat models. If you understand how a group operates and what it wants, you can make better decisions before the next incident lands.

The final stretch of the episode focuses on AI, and the tone is sober. Mellen sees real value in automation, especially where AI can speed up workflows and reduce manual effort. She also sees a harder problem taking shape. AI lowers the cost of deception, makes false flag activity easier, and complicates attribution. Add that to a more fragmented internet and a more unstable geopolitical environment, and the result is a tougher operating environment for defenders.

This episode is a strong listen for anyone trying to understand how cyber power actually works in practice. Listen to the full conversation, pick up Code War, and then review whether your threat model still treats cyber as a stand-alone technical problem. That assumption is getting harder to defend.

Click for Allie's Book