The Grant Williams Podcast The Grant Williams Podcast Ep. 113 - Diana Choyleva
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Dec 8, 2025 
Diana Choyleva, chief economist at Enodo Economics who studies currency internationalization, unpacks de-dollarization with nuance. She explores China’s push for a digital yuan and new payment rails. She discusses China–Saudi ties, payment infrastructure, and the geopolitical tech race shaping a bifurcating financial order.
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China's Long Game For Currency Influence
- China has pursued currency internationalization as a strategic, long-term project since about 2009 and accelerated after 2017-18.
- Diana Choyleva argues this reflects a structural shift toward a bifurcated world with China building parallel financial infrastructure.
Expect Regional Currency Bifurcation
- China is unlikely to fully replace the dollar globally but will create a parallel, localized RMB-based sphere of finance.
- Diana's thesis expects bifurcation where US-led and China-led systems coexist regionally.
The Real Battle Is Payment Plumbing
- Payment rails and messaging (SWIFT) are core vulnerabilities that pushed China to build alternatives like CNAPS and a digital yuan.
- Diana says technological advances and inefficiencies in dollar rails make non-dollar payments increasingly feasible.