#WeLearn: Lessons From WeWork By Mckinsey Senior Expert, Phil Kirschner

Feb 1, 2022

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What role does human behavior have on how we should consume space?

Phil Kirschner, Workplace Strategy and Change Leader at McKinsey & Company joins Bold Founder Caleb Parker for the ninth episode of Season 6 to share the lessons from his part of the WeWork story, as well as how he’s helping organisations evolve their Workplace Strategies in his current role at McKinsey.

Phil explains what customers liked about WeWork’s product as well as the challenges in delivering the buzz and energy at the enterprise level.

He goes on to explian that McKinsey offices are seeing higher demand today, though the reason may surprise you.

This is a great episode ahead for office investors, operators and customers alike.

Connect with Phil Kirschner

https://www.mckinsey.com/our-people/phil-kirschner

https://www.linkedin.com/in/philkirschner/

https://twitter.com/philkirschner

Connect with Caleb Parker on LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/calebparker/

If you have any questions or feedback on this episode, email podcast@workbold.co

Value Bombs:

We need to make sure that we provide an experience that our employees feel taken care of and they want to come into the office. - Caleb

The trend that we're seeing now in the UK is clients being very sensitive to their employees’ experience. - Caleb
The biggest difference between a hospitality-oriented environment and one that is built as a traditional office is that the social space comes first and you put an enormous amount of energy into making sure it feels exciting and compelling. - Phil

I believe that the community, the flexibility, the energy and the hospitality, all of that fits within a Bold style footprint in a building. - Caleb
Right now, we are so over-scheduled because of attempting to retain old practices, that it is impossible to imagine and embrace this new future. - Phil

Having a hybrid future relies on employee willingness to consider and adopt new practices and technologies and the company in support of the same thing.- Phil
The two things I find myself saying most frequently is to give people freedom and flexibility through space and time. - Phil

Resources:

Shout Outs:

About Our Guests:

Phil Kirschner

https://www.linkedin.com/in/philkirschner/

https://twitter.com/philkirschner

https://www.mckinsey.com/our-people/phil-kirschner

Phil has 19 years of experience persuading complex networks of stakeholders to transform their operational processes and behaviours. At Credit Suisse, JLL and WeWork, he learned continuously across the disciplines of information security, operational risk, expense management and corporate real estate, before finding his passion for workplace strategy and the future of work.

Outside of work, he is a fifth-generation NYC native, dedicated father and husband, committed volunteer for New York Cares and Lincoln Center, and avid traveller with 45 countries under his belt so far.

About Our Host:

Caleb Parker

https://www.linkedin.com/in/calebparker/

Caleb Parker is an American entrepreneur in London, and Founder of Bold (acquired by Newable/NewFlex in 2019).

He believes in "challenging the status quo" and is a champion for entrepreneurial and innovative thinking.

Caleb has served as founder, Board member, advisor, investor and consultant to numerous startups and small businesses, and has a keen focus on innovation and technology, with interests in the MICE market, Space-as-a-Service, and the future of work.

Caleb has been a guest lecturer, speaker, and moderator for topics such as entrepreneurship, the sharing economy, the future of work and commercial real estate at academic institutions and large corporations. He regularly takes the stage at numerous trade conferences as keynote speaker, MC, host or facilitator.

Earlier in his career, Caleb was named one of Savannah, Georgia's “40 under 40” business leaders" in 2006 after launching two successful small businesses in the city's booming hospitality industry. A year later he moved to Washington, DC to join the The Regus Group DC management team. In 2009, Caleb co-founded a flexible workspace consulting firm where he brokered flexible workspace and advised businesses on agile working strategies.

Caleb is one of the first licensed commercial real estate agents to speak on the flexible working trends and the rise of flexible workspace, and has been quoted in numerous publications.

Timestamps

[06:40] From your time at WeWork, what was the demand you were seeing in regards to scale-ups and enterprise and what was like for a normal member versus an enterprise customer?

A lot of our corporate clients were interested in what WeWork was exploring, trialling and implementing in our own headquarters.

To the mass market, the idea of a workplace, which is both convenient and in a desirable location, with a likeable community of people that offered an engaging experience was a compelling product to buy.
For enterprise members, in co-working spaces or flexible office spaces, usually the major differentiator is that the person who occupies the space was not the person who made the decision to have people occupy that space, so the dynamic of who made the decision relative to who's having the experience is a little different.

[10:20] What is the enterprise product and what does it look like?

In early days, in order to achieve such scale and growth and get the level of enterprise buy-ins, we delivered whatever was attractive to buyer.
Leaders were attracted by our flexibility, our locations and our growth, not necessarily by community and experience. We would often customise to suit the needs of the enterprise.

[13:50] What do you think worked and didn’t work about the flexibility and customisation?

As part of the WeWork narrative, we would bring what we have learned from the explosive growth, design and research, to bring the best to the company.

When we went to our client and were doing spaces within an overall context that they controlled, they were typically more amenable to listening to the science and the research.
We had success taking a WeWork footprint into someone else’s footprint versus having them come to ours.

[24:05] You are now the ‘Workplace strategy and change leader’ at McKinsey, can you tell us what your role involves?

Phil spends his time trying to have broad spectrum impact across client and industry teams, serving individual projects, but also working to build capabilities and knowledge for the firm.
Phil sits between two practice areas, delivering strategic advice to companies who happen to be in the business of real estate- designing, servicing, operating, investing and the function of real estate. His secondary home is within a people and organisational performance practice.
He gets to focus on the impact that physical space has on leadership and business decisions and the role that organisational and employee behaviours have on how you should be consuming space.

[26:30] How does McKinsey see the future of the office and real estate in general?

Client perceptions are changing and it’s creating greater demand on our office.
There used to be a very big difference between the two industry groups, now they're both going to converge.
Having a hybrid future relies on employee willingness to consider and adopt new practices and technologies and the company in support of the same thing.
Someone who is moving around during the day has a significantly higher incentive to learn about new tools and become as fluent as possible with the resources available to help them become untethered.

[32:30] If a company is listening right now and they’re looking at managing their space and people in a different way, what are the top two tips that you would give them?

Give people freedom and flexibility. Through space and time, whether that's in the office or between locations, their homes or a third place.
Present employees with choices and help encourage them to make the choice that you think will have the best outcome, as opposed to trying to direct them to do something specifically.

[35:10] How should real estate brands like Bold and others in the supply of office real estate support customers going forward?

My biggest recommendation for people in the flexible spaces is to have a greater awareness of the fact that corporate employees will be governed by corporate programs and messaging that are not obvious on the surface.

[36:40] Quickfire Questions

Who is your go-to for inspiration?

Phil listens to several podcasts. His top three are: Distributed, with Matt Mullenweg, Brave New Work from The Ready and 99% Invisible. Phil likes being forced to think differently about design and architecture choices that have nothing to do with workplace. He finds it really provocative and inspiring.

If you could wave a magic wand and change anything when it comes to company culture right now, what would that be?

For us just belonging and being authentically ourselves, such as seeing the humanity in each other and using that to inform decisions and how we communicate with employees.

Where is your favourite holiday destination?

Phil was fortunate to have a sabbatical and travel through Asia. He would love to return to New Zealand and Australia with his family.

Sponsors

Headline Sponsor: TSK

TSK creates inspiring workplaces for some of the world’s biggest brands across the UK and Ireland, They’ve been working for 25 years to deliver the best employee experiences and the vision of their clients. Not only do they create great places to work, TSK share workplace content every week from the latest data to inspiring spaces they’ve designed and built. You can read their latest insights at www.tskgroup.co.uk or check out their LinkedIn and Instagram pages to become a follower, fan and friend.

Fortune Favours the Bold

Bold merges property management & Space-as-a-Service to drive asset value and help office customers grow faster. Now part of NewFlex (www.workbold.co)

Future Proof Your Portfolio with NewFlex

NewFlex delivers and manages a range of branded solutions for every type of building, in every type of location, for every type of occupier. Including the flexibility to develop your own brand. All enabled by flexible management contracts where we are invested in making money for you. (www.newflex.com)

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