S2E3b SPECIAL Groceryshop 2022 Part 2 - Lisa Kinney of Albertsons & Dave Steck of Schnuck Markets

Missed Groceryshop 2022? Not to worry, we’ve got you covered! Welcome to another SPECIAL EDITION season 2, episode 3, Part 2, Groceryshop recap!

We’re bringing you 6 great interviews recorded live and in-person at Groceryshop in Las Vegas, NV, bundled up in 3 episodes with 2 interviews each. For part 2, we hear very unique perspectives from two amazing, experienced grocery retailers. First, we speak with Lisa Kinney, VP of Customer Market Intelligence for Albertsons, who talks about the value of data in grocery, and asks the “why” question in a way that no one really expresses on stage at a show like Grocery Shop. Then we chat with Dave Steck, VP of IT Infrastructure and Application Development for Schnuck Markets. We get into why his approach to emerging technologies at Schnuck Markets is so different from what we hear from other grocers. You'll be hard pressed to find more unique insights and commentary anywhere else in less than 30 minutes!

We’ll be back soon with 2 more Groceryshop themed episodes and another 2 amazing interviews!

News update! We’re at #21 on the Feedspot Top 60 Best Retail podcasts list, so please keep those 5-star reviews in Apple Podcasts coming! With your help, we’ll move our way deep into the Top 20! Leave us a review and be mentioned in a future episode! https://blog.feedspot.com/retail_podcasts/

Meet your hosts, helping you cut through the clutter in retail & retail tech:

Ricardo Belmar, a RETHINK Retail Top Retail Influencer for 2022 & 2021, RIS News Top Movers and Shakers in Retail for 2021, a Top 12 ecommerce influencer, advisory council member at George Mason University’s Center for Retail Transformation, and director partner marketing advisor for retail & consumer goods at Microsoft.

Casey Golden, CEO of Luxlock. Obsessed with the customer relationship between the brand and the consumer. After a career on the fashion and supply chain technology side of the business, now slaying franken-stacks and building retail tech!

Includes music provided by imunobeats.com, featuring Swag Tag and Brag, and Overclocked, from the album Beat Hype, written by Hestron Mimms, published by Imuno.

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Host → Ricardo Belmar,

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TRANSCRIPT

SPECIAL Edition: Groceryshop 2022, Part 2

[00:00:00] Ricardo Belmar:

[00:00:20] Introduction to Part 2

[00:00:20] Ricardo Belmar: Hello, and welcome to season two, episode three, part two of the Retail Razor Show. I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar 

[00:00:27] Casey Golden: And I'm your co-host, Casey Golden. Welcome Retail Razor Show listeners to our unapologetically authentic retail podcast for product junkies, commerce technologists, and everybody else in retail and retail tech alike. So Ricardo, part one of our grocery shop series was quite interesting. We heard from an awesome startup, Grocery Shopii and their CEO Katie Hotze. She was amazing and really makes me wanna go shop for groceries, which I haven't done in literally years. which is pretty incredible. 

[00:01:01] Ricardo Belmar: Katie is pretty amazing. You have to love her approach to making grocery shopping easier, healthier, and to me most importantly, faster while saving money. Definitely expect to hear more about Grocery Shopii in the future.

[00:01:14] Casey Golden: Absolutely. And then you talked with Stuart Samuel about trends at the first half of the show. No surprise there, retail media networks, just as we predicted at the beginning of the year, were very p rominent 

[00:01:27] Ricardo Belmar: And no doubt about it. And he also talked about a few other trends around profitability with eCommerce, convenience services and current shopper trends driven by economic conditions. For listeners, if you haven't checked out part one, you definitely need to. 

[00:01:41] Casey Golden: So Ricardo, what do we have coming up in part two for this episode? 

[00:01:46] Ricardo Belmar: This episode may just blow your mind. I, I interviewed two experienced retailers in grocery, Lisa Kenney, VP of Customer Market Intelligence for Albertsons, and Dave Steck, VP of IT Infrastructure and Application Development for Schnuck Markets. Each of them gave a very unique perspective on many of the trends we heard about in part one.

[00:02:06] In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find more unique insights and commentary anywhere else. If you're wondering why I say that, it's because both take a very different view of technology trends in grocery and start by asking one of my favorite questions, and quite frankly, probably one of the most valuable words in any language... why?.

[00:02:24] Casey Golden: Wow, that's quite a setup you just dropped. Tell us some more.

[00:02:28] Ricardo Belmar: Well, I wanna give everything away, but, Okay. A few spoilers. Lisa and I talk about the value of data in grocery, and she asks why in a way that no one really expressed on stage at the show. She goes into detail on the behind the scenes conversations grocers have at a show like Grocery Shop that you don't normally hear on stage.

[00:02:47] And if that isn't shocking enough to listen to, she offers a very different take on retail media networks that may just completely change your perspective on this.

[00:02:55] Casey Golden: Okay. Wow. Now I really wanna jump into this. Is your interview with Dave just as juicy. 

[00:03:01] Ricardo Belmar: You bet. Dave is practically an icon at Grocery Shop. He's been on stage at every Grocery Shop each year talking about emerging technology like robotics, IoT, and more. We get into why his approach and what Schnuck Markets is doing seems to be so different from what we hear from other grocers. And spoiler alert when you hear him explain why, you just might have some flashbacks to our episode with Andy Laudato from the Vitamin Shoppe about his book Fostering Innovation.

[00:03:27] It all comes down to corporate culture, and you'll hear what I mean by that. It's pretty powerful.

[00:03:31] Casey Golden: Okay, so I thought part one was jam packed with incredible nuggets. Now you're making me think part two is going to top that. 

[00:03:39] Ricardo Belmar: Well, don't say I didn't warn you. If you wanted to take notes during part one, then you better get some extra sheets of paper out for this one. It's just crazy. This is an episode that I would put under the column of things that make you go, hmm.

[00:03:51] Casey Golden: All right. Now you're just going totally over the top with that kind of setup. We better just dive right in and get right to it. I'm stoked. Let's listen together to Lisa Kinney and Dave Steck recorded live and in person at Grocery Shop 2022.

[00:04:08]

[00:04:08] Lisa Kinney Interview

[00:04:08] Ricardo Belmar: and welcome to the Retail Razor Show Special Edition Groceryshop Episode. I'm here today with special guest Lisa Kinney, VP of customer market intelligence. for Albertsons. Welcome to the show, Lisa. 

[00:04:28] Lisa Kinney: thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. 

[00:04:30] Ricardo Belmar: So you and I were chatting a little bit before we recorded about what seems to be the most interesting here at the show are the things that we're not hearing people talk about on stage. 

[00:04:39] Almost like a what's behind the scenes, really of interest and value to people in the industry. And we kind of ended up landing on a discussion about data. With which to be fair, right. Has been a big part of a lot of the discussions on stage, but they've all centered around what I would call the outcome of what you do with the data you have that might be customer facing and it might be more B2B facing because as a retailer, I'm going to sell a service around this to someone else, but you had a very unique and interesting perspective about how grocers are looking at the data. 

[00:05:13] Lisa Kinney: Yeah, I think. There's a few things, Thanks for teeing that up. I think. The things that aren't discussed on it, that are discussed amongst peers, which is wonderful that after 30 years in this business, We have, we have industry peers that work with competitors that work You know, that are in consultancy now. 

[00:05:33] And we've all been in the data game for quite some time, at least myself in particular. , and so it's nice that the conversations offstage are really about like, are you guys running into this problem too? 

[00:05:44] Are you worried about what I'm seeing or that isn't being talked about? And it's nice that we can put down the, I work for X company. 

[00:05:52] And I need to view you as a competitor and we actually then have a lot of off the record great conversations around what's really happening behind. You know, behind the tent per se. 

[00:06:03] And so on the data space as I was listening to, there's a couple of things first, I'll talk about just this, I think it's, been a revolution of technology. And I think we talked a little bit about.

[00:06:13] Look. Yeah. The change that's happened has been out of an uncontrollable demand that really accelerated everyone to solve for things that have been problems for, for quite some time. Perpetual inventory, you know, finding ways to optimize labor, finding a shorter path to distance from farm to table. All of those things have been on the minds for all of us.

[00:06:35] for quite some time, but I don't think has been quite as pressing up until now. So. When we think about the data side. Now we have all this new, cool technology like scan and go and new frictionless payment. 

[00:06:46] Systems and, and the smart cards and, And in my mind, having monetized data for so many years, I'm asking, gosh, I hope all these partners that are working with these new tech companies recognize that really the race is the data race.

[00:07:02] it's all about the data. 

[00:07:04] Ricardo Belmar: all about the data. 

[00:07:05] Lisa Kinney: And even when we were talking, oh, We were talking offline about the Instacart proposition and it was very clear today that an advantage that they have built through the data that they're collecting and a very challenging channel to understand which is the e-commerce channel. So I look at it like, I hope that everyone is thinking about.

[00:07:25] Who's really trying to, is it really about providing a service that's going to meet the needs of customers? Or is there an underpinning of data. that has high profitability, really high margins, and ultimately is really what they're going after. So I just think we have to be a little careful. 

[00:07:41] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. It's part who do you choose as the partner and then part, once you've chosen the partner, how do you define the relationship? 

[00:07:48] Lisa Kinney: How do you define the relationship? And I think one of the the most telling questions anyone could ask is how do you make money? 

[00:07:53] Ricardo Belmar: Right. What's their business model.

[00:07:55] Lisa Kinney: What is your, like how do you make money? And ultimately when you start peeling the layers, you might find that it might even be not profitable at all. But they are banking on, you know, and I'm not, I'm not speaking disparagingly of

[00:08:07] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, right, right, right. 

[00:08:08] Lisa Kinney: But, but I just think it's something that's woven throughout all of this. That's not necessarily Front and center in the discussion. 

[00:08:15] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. And it's so something you have to think about to see how it solves your problem. Right.

[00:08:19] Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so along those lines, one of the other things we were talking about before that, that very directly relates to everything about data is what's happening around retail media networks. What are your thoughts there? 

[00:08:32] Lisa Kinney: Yeah. And so I'll speak. And As a reminder. and disclaimer, I am only speaking as Lisa Kinney. 30 years of being around the block a few times. And so this is just my opinion.

[00:08:44] So my opinion is something's going to disrupt this whole retail media ecosystem that's being developed right now. I think every retailer is looking for ways to drive alternative revenue. I think that's of no surprise. I think the data game was really it 20 years ago. I think Kroger obviously, and, you know, having worked with them in that space. 

[00:09:05] In the very beginning. When that was being developed. it was a data play for a long time and then it, And then it's become a media play. And I think every retailer is my audience is bigger than your audience. or my partner is better than your partner. So, you know, I can I can now do. attribution and get brand dollars and the, in the digital TV world and I can do right.

[00:09:26] Ricardo Belmar: right. Yep. All about making it more attractive to the 

[00:09:28] Lisa Kinney: Yes. Yes. And as a brand, having been a brand long, long ago. so really long time I start thinking about. okay, so now. I'm a trade planner. I'm in trade marketing. Where does. Where does. Retail media fit in to that? I know, I used to say it doesn't come out at trade dollars. I mean, that was my selling profit. That it doesn't come out a trade, it's it's, this is brand funded. 

[00:09:55] And perhaps it's a bit true, but as a brand then, so now I'm the brand owner, so I'm, I own brand X. And I've got to make a decision on how I take my media plan that I want to develop for my brand and now I've got to go sell it in and try and figure out how to activate. Against all these retail audiences and quite frankly. just so that we all understand. These audiences are all overlapping. 

[00:10:18] Ricardo Belmar: Right.

[00:10:19] Lisa Kinney: It's an 80% of the cases. I'd say they're the same. So, So are you going to pay four times to reach that? So it's interesting. I mean, maybe I'm being too simplistic about it, but I'm like, I wonder, I wonder. Who's going to come in and say, you know what, don't worry about going direct to retail. Don't worry about each individual. RMN We've got the solution for you. I don't know if it's in the payment space.

[00:10:43] I don't know if it's going to be, I mean, I hate to name company names, but I really feel like someone's going to come in and say, this is a really fragmented world to talk to the same shared common customer. And Somebody has access to that shared common customer And it might actually not be the retailer. 

[00:11:01] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. 

[00:11:01] yeah, but they can kind of give you an aggregated view 

[00:11:03] Lisa Kinney: Sure 

[00:11:04] Sure 

[00:11:05] Ricardo Belmar: retailers, right? Because they know who they may know who the customer is. They may have a better data point that, that kind of fingers out at you. It's this customer 

[00:11:13] And they visit these four stores or these four different retailers. So I can help you target them much better than the individual retailers 

[00:11:20] Lisa Kinney: correct! Cause you're going to pay 10 X and that particular person's. to the highest bidder, like, 

[00:11:25] Ricardo Belmar: Exactly. I think It's a fascinating. point because it kind of brings us almost back full circle, right. To how all advertising started. Where you had these access to gigantic audiences. In a more centralized way to reach as many people as you could. And in some ways, I guess for me, that goes a little bit against the retail media premise that you're trying to, I'm kind of pitching to you. I have a narrow focused audience that is therefore, because it's narrowly focused more valuable to you. At least I think that's the premise, and that's the pitch. 

[00:11:54] But to your point, if you're the brand well, is that really what I want is that helping me. 

[00:11:59] Is it too narrow? Do I need to kind of back up and say, well, I need, I need a broader reach because I'm a national brand. I need to reach as many. It's great that I know who I'm reaching more specifically, I'll use an example like where I live, there is, I don't know, four or five different grocery stores nearby. 

[00:12:15] So I'm pretty sure if I guessed the people in my neighborhood, don't all say I only ever go to that one store and I never visit the other three 

[00:12:23] Lisa Kinney: We'll call that never. 

[00:12:24] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, I think that's the never use case. Nope. Nobody acts that I think if you asked everyone in my neighborhood and would say, oh yeah, of the five grocery stores, I probably regularly visit three

[00:12:33] Lisa Kinney: Correct. 

[00:12:34] Correct. And I think that that's the interesting pieces because I, I. There's a part of me. that's at one point whichever. retailer just says, you know what, I'm not going to, I'm just going to, I'm going to take my data and I am just gonna pipe it to the top three agencies that do all the brand media. 

[00:12:52] Like the, you know, the top ones, right. I'm just going to pipe my data there. And, And and let them go, like, buy audiences you have all our behavior data. I mean, I'm talking a world of like what ifs and that would not happen, but you think about it. I'm like maybe that would be the first for winner. 

[00:13:08] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Well, maybe if there's that sort of aggregator out there that comes whether it's a revenue share or some other business model that. That you know, it helps create that incremental stream that.

[00:13:17] Lisa Kinney: Or it's just not a retailer at all. And it's somebody 

[00:13:20] Ricardo Belmar: Whereas somebody else, it could be a, it could be a new tech company that hasn't come, come

[00:13:23] Lisa Kinney: Correct. It's coming. 

[00:13:24] Ricardo Belmar: out how to do it. Yeah, 

[00:13:25] no that's a 

[00:13:25] Lisa Kinney: fragmented. I think, I think it's just, you know one plus one plus one. Yeah.

[00:13:31] Ricardo Belmar: Equals five. 

[00:13:32] Lisa Kinney: Exactly. Exactly because it's all incremental. right. It's all incremental. That's impossible.

[00:13:38] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, no, that's a great, great point. 

[00:13:41] Well, Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been fascinating. I mean, a really different kind of perspective. From everybody I've been talking to so far. I think I'm really intrigued by this idea you brought up that, there there's another solution out there that we're Not quite seeing yet. that somebody is going to come up with. That's going to solve this problem. In a bigger and better way. 

[00:14:00] Lisa Kinney: Until then. I think that the retail media spaces is transforming quickly. And I think that there's money to be had. And I think that It'll be a fun, profitable, ride for many for, for, for awhile.

[00:14:13] But I just don't think that that's going to be the model that's for forever. I just can't envision it, but that's probably an unpopular opinion. So it's just mine. It's just my

[00:14:21] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Well, we'll see how it plays out. We'll see how it plays out. And then we can, we can all see who was right about the prediction.

[00:14:27] Lisa Kinney: Yeah, right. I know nothing. It's just an observation. 

[00:14:30] Ricardo Belmar: exactly. Well, Lisa, thanks again for joining me. It's been great talking with you about the grocery spac e

[00:14:37] Lisa Kinney: Yes, it's been wonderful. Thanks for having me. 

[00:14:38]

[00:14:38] Dave Steck Interview

[00:14:38] Ricardo Belmar: welcome to the Retail Razor Show Special Edition at Grocery shop 2022. 

[00:14:53] Continuing our series of conversations with true retail transformers to talk all things, grocery and consumer goods.

[00:15:00] I'm here now with Dave Steck VP of IT, Infrastructure and Application Development for Schnuck Markets. Dave it's great to have you on the show. And then I have to say you, You must be becoming a, a grocery shop, mainstay as I think you've been a speaker at every single grocery shop haven't you? 

[00:15:14] Dave Steck: That's correct. 

[00:15:15] Ricardo Belmar: Well, it's wonderful to have you with us here today. So I guess I have to say the, obviously the reason you've been invited year after year to be a speaker at the show is that you've, you've led a number of innovative technology initiatives at Schnuck Markets. and ranging from deploying robots, IOT, computer vision. and other things in store. 

[00:15:34] Let's get started by kind of walking me through all these different technologies that you've been talking about and then what your experience has been with them. And getting them deployed to stores and what challenges they're helping you solve. 

[00:15:44] Dave Steck: Well, obviously, I always talk about robots

[00:15:46] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:15:47] Dave Steck: that was really kind of the first big one that big splash, because everybody's interested in that. and that really started in 2017 with simbe robotics to just understand that technology and what the capabilities were. I think the, the The funny thing. I talk about. Quite often as when we first deployed those that got a lot of press and, I was interviewed. I was interviewed quite a bit by the local radio stations and one of the quotes that I remember saying is, you know, We're most interested in the data that comes back from this. I had no idea what I was talking about. It just sounded good at the time. 

[00:16:21] But the reality is. You start to understand that data that's coming back from a robot and all the different capabilities that it enables within the, within the business. And that data is just invaluable. 

[00:16:35] So that's, that's one of the big things that we've been doing. We've looked at lately. Look, electronic shelf labels is another big business enabler for us as well. And that's through different evaluations, we've evaluated three different. Three different types of tags and settled on pretty much settled on one at this point getting ready to, to roll that out across the chain. If the value proposition holds up, like we 

[00:16:58] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah Okay 

[00:17:00] Dave Steck: So, but that there's a lot that goes with electronic shelf label as well as far as capability. 

[00:17:06] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. 

[00:17:09] what have been some of the things that, you know, you were really looking for. As like your, your top value that you want to get out of the electronic shelf labels

[00:17:15] Dave Steck: Well, it's an interesting. That's an interesting question because when we first looked at this. Years ago, years ago, I've only been with the company for eight years, but you know three or four years ago. As a matter of fact, the reseller that, that we're working with came and quotes me back on this is. I told him the math equation doesn't work. And it didn't work, but post COVID.

[00:17:38] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah Yeah 

[00:17:39] Dave Steck: when you're, You're looking at a dwindling labor pool. And you're trying to add the value to the customer and not just going through repetitive processes. You still have to have an ROI. But, but now you have to look at it a little differently. So. The. The math equation is is entirely different.

[00:18:01] And that's what makes this kind of exciting is it's something now that. We can do. And now that we can do this. What is the value you can get out of 

[00:18:12] Ricardo Belmar: Okay you're kind of backing into it in a different way.

[00:18:14] Dave Steck: Right. So, you know, understanding, pick to light. Stock to light. People think. Well, everybody in the store knows where everything's at, the store teammates know it. 

[00:18:24] Right. Yeah. You have to think about turnover. But even then, you know, I've been in the store where there's a stocker that's 10 years with a company. And he loves the ability to turn on the light when he can't find an item, he says, I don't know where everything's at. He said, I've been here years. I still don't know where everything's

[00:18:43] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. 

[00:18:43] Dave Steck: So you get that. You can get into other capabilities as well, which, you have all these AI pricing engines, Eversight is who we use, But with Eversight you have to be able to change tags on a fairly frequent basis. But with COVID and dwindling labor supply, you can only change so many tags. and then you really have no true way of verifying that that tag was actually hung. So you could be making some AI pricing decisions based off of bad data. With the ESL now, you've got, you know, that, that price was 

[00:19:20] Ricardo Belmar: You can verify and you've got the validation that the change is made. 

[00:19:22] Dave Steck: So we're not, we're not, we're not there yet because we don't have ESLs deployed across the company, but that is definitely something that we're looking at as far as capability. There's other, other value That comes from ESL, you can do day part pricing. Other special promotions. You

[00:19:37] know for customers who are in your loyalty program ,if there's something that they're looking for.

[00:19:43] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. 

[00:19:43] Dave Steck: They can push. You know, light up the light as well within the app. So they can actually find the item that they're, that they're looking 

[00:19:50] Ricardo Belmar: So with a lot of these things that I've heard you talk about this before, and even in past grocery shops, the is the time-saving factor for the workforce in the store, is that typically a major factor that goes into the ROI for you? 

[00:20:04] Dave Steck: Good question. 

[00:20:05] Though the robot. So let's start with the robot robot. Everybody thought was well we're, we're cutting hours because you're using a robot 

[00:20:12] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah 

[00:20:12] Dave Steck: And the reality is It wasn't so much a time-saving as it was in accuracy. That the time that we, we allow for at the time. We were doing this. was Four hours a week for store teammates to scan outs. You can't get that done in four hours. When we, we did ourselves, we send it people in there, it took us 12 hours to you go. Yeah. So, doing the, robot wasn't I'm going to cut hours. It was, I'm going to get the experience. for the customers and get the products on the shelf. That's know, you, If you go in. I think it was every three hours or four hours. They had to use the laser temp sensors to go and check all the cases. And. I, if you look at the logs, You know that. The temp. Was never read. It was just somebody writing down. writing down. what they felt like writing down. So, 

[00:20:57] Ricardo Belmar: yeah. 

[00:20:58] Yeah. Most likely because of the time involved. Right.

[00:21:00] If they want to get it done. 

[00:21:01] Dave Steck: And you also have no reliance on how they did. it. Everybody has A different way. of doing it. And if they're looking for a certain temperature, they can find it in the case and they can write that temperature down. So with, with temp sensing, you're you're getting a consistent location for the probe or the sensor. 

[00:21:21] And it's consistent time and you can again, build a data algorithm around that, to know. Your case health. And if there's something going wrong, you get notified about that. And I. We have other sensing within our cases. That is more sophisticated. That's looking at compressor temperatures. And pressure And all that, but getting it into each four foot door. It makes a big difference. 

[00:21:44] Ricardo Belmar: yeah. no, that makes sense. That makes sense. 

[00:21:45] So let me ask you this. Cause one thing I've noticed, I've kind of been looking for who else is talking about doing these same kinds of technology deployments that you've done. And I feel that I'm not hearing as much as I would think I would given the amount of time that you've already had these things in place. The years you've invested in getting it deployed. I'm curious what you think are the things holding back, other grocers from doing what you've already done? 

[00:22:12] Dave Steck: From our perspective. our, from my perspective, we have a mandate. I got, I guess you could say it's a mandate to try new things. And We are, we are constantly trying to try new things. So, there it's part of our reviews. Are you, are you trying new things? So that, that helps. We're family owned. 112 stores. So we don't have the bureaucracy that you get into these large corporations and I've worked for large corporations and I know that the ideation is great. But the execution just gets bogged down because everybody 

[00:22:48] Ricardo Belmar: Everybody has to have a say in it and be involved. 

[00:22:50] Dave Steck: Right Yeah. 

[00:22:51] Ricardo Belmar: it becomes your decision by massive committee. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right.

[00:22:56] Dave Steck: analysis paralysis. 

[00:22:57] Ricardo Belmar: Exactly Yeah. So you're kind of saying it comes down to that corporate culture. And how innovation centric is that culture and their ability to execute on any given innovation.

[00:23:06] Dave Steck: Yeah. And you also have a fear factor. 

[00:23:08] With that as well. Right. A lot of people are scared for their jobs. 

[00:23:11] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah 

[00:23:12] Dave Steck: And if you don't have that culture, which failure is okay. 

[00:23:18] Ricardo Belmar: yeah. that's 

[00:23:18] Dave Steck: nobody's, nobody's going to try it. 

[00:23:20] Yeah, 

[00:23:20] I'm not going to stick my neck out. It's you know, it's like why everybody bought IBM 

[00:23:25] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, because you couldn't go wrong. Nobody got fired 

[00:23:27] Dave Steck: Nobody got fired over 

[00:23:28] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah no that's a good point. .

[00:23:28] So if, If you have someone who's trying to do the, these kinds of things and they look at you and say, Dave, what are some of the lessons you've learned that if you were to go back and do it all over again, What would you do differently? 

[00:23:40] Dave Steck: Yeah, there's been some big failures. 

[00:23:42] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:23:42] Dave Steck: Sometimes. You try Too hard to get to the end result. and you go too fast. There's been a number of things that we've rolled out that we just went crazy and got the implementation done to to get to the end result or the cost savings or whatever. And you stand back and you look at it and you go. Yeah, that was a big mistake. But then, but then you've you fight your way through it? It's. Failures only failure if you allow yourself to say I quit. Right. If If you fail. And keep trying. and fix the problem, then it's not really failure. It's 

[00:24:19] Ricardo Belmar: it's a learning 

[00:24:20] Dave Steck: It's a learning experience, and you still get to what you need to get to. It just is a little bit painful. 

[00:24:25] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, I completely agree with you. It's one of those things that I think it goes back to that corporate culture and culture of innovation as to how the whole organization wants to support that. Because just like you mentioned earlier, there's that fear of failure. And if that's a valid fear, then nobody wants to fail. Right. nobody wants to try anything then because they might fail. 

[00:24:44] Are there any other technologies like this? You know, you, cause you've done a lot at this point, you've really made good use of all of these things we call emerging technologies in this space. Uh Apart from the electronic shelf labels, are there anything else catching your eye that you're really looking at, either studying or thinking about that's where we're going next. 

[00:25:01] Dave Steck: Well, a smart carts are, are one thing. Yeah, I've looked at the Amazon go type concepts. 

[00:25:06] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. 

[00:25:07] Dave Steck: It's great, but the infrastructure that's associated with that, the retrofitting of a building I think. I think smart carts are one thing that's really got some, some traction in it. You see more and more of the self scanning as you're, as you're shopping. That's. Failing in places you have too much theft. There's a couple things that I've looked at that. I think our really cool. That I really don't know where the business cases for it. We were looking for indoor GPS. 

[00:25:33] Ricardo Belmar: Okay.

[00:25:34] Dave Steck: So I went through a number of different things with beaconing and we went into visible Did you ever see visible light communication? 

[00:25:42] Ricardo Belmar: I I looked at them once before, too. 

[00:25:44] Dave Steck: Yeah. that's really. 

[00:25:45] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. 

[00:25:46] Dave Steck: Really accurate. but the customers all hate you because you could kill their battery before they're finished their shopping journey and then You have orient out there, I don't know if you've seen orient or not which is an Israeli company. that does indoor positioning and they're using it on the, off the phone. super accurate but. It's it's understanding. As time. has evolved for us and we've gotten further away. It's how do we, how do we incorporate that, capability into our app and the experience for, for the end customer. And I think eventually we'll get there, but indoor positioning is going to is going to stick at some point. It's it's important. 

[00:26:19] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, I think that's definitely 

[00:26:21] Customers want that, customers want the benefit from that one. 

[00:26:24] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:26:26] Well, Dave, I really appreciate you joining me today. This has been a fascinating conversation. I love hearing all the different things that you're trying and hearing about the culture of your organization and how you guys go about trying new things. I think that's fantastic. Thanks so much for joining us

[00:26:40] Dave Steck: Thank you for having me! 

[00:26:41]

[00:26:41] Show Close

[00:26:41] Casey Golden: We hope you enjoyed our show and we can't ask you enough to please give us a five star rating and review on apple podcast to help us grow and bring you more great episodes. If you don't wanna miss a minute of what's next, be sure to smash that subscribe button in your favorite podcast player. And don't forget to check out our show notes for handy links and more deets. I'm your host, Casey Golden. 

[00:27:15] Ricardo Belmar: And if you'd like to learn more about the two of us, follow us on Twitter at Casey c golden and Ricardo underscore Belmar, or find us on LinkedIn. Be sure to follow the show on LinkedIn and Twitter at retail razor. Plus our YouTube channel for videos of each episode and bonus content. I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar.

[00:27:32] Casey Golden: Thanks for joining us.

[00:27:33] Ricardo Belmar: And remember, there's never been a better time to be in retail. If you cut through the clutter until next time, this is the retail razor show.