Policy Prompt Victims, Scammers, and Scammers Who Are Victims (the dark side of the digital economy with Mark Bo and Ivan Franceschini)
The playing field for modern scams is bigger than ever. Entire guarded compounds are dedicated to online and phone fraud, and the network of influence and intimidation these organizations hold grows daily, facilitated by emerging technology such as artificial intelligence and mass automation. An epicentre has emerged in East and Southeast Asia; Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, China and more are both sources and victims of organized scams. Local governments have been cracking down to an extent, but this hydra has heads at all levels of public influence — a stronger, more coordinated approach is needed to conquer this beast.
This episode features experts Mark Bo and Ivan Franceschini in conversation with Paul on the scam industry and its victims, how organized scam syndicates can start to take over local economies through corruption and human trafficking, and what most people misunderstand about how these organizations operate. Based in East and Southeast Asia for two decades, Mark is a researcher who utilizes his background in corporate and financial mapping to investigate Asia’s online gambling, fraud, and money laundering industries. Ivan, a lecturer in Chinese Studies at the Centre for Contemporary Chinese Studies, Asia Institute, focuses his research on globalization, labour, and the evolving dynamics of crime in the digital age, particularly on the cyber-fraud industry.
Mentioned:
- Sihanoukville, Cambodia: https://www.britannica.com/place/Sihanoukville
- Pig butchering scam - a common crypto investment scheme: https://dfpi.ca.gov/news/insights/pig-butchering-how-to-spot-and-report-the-scam/#:~:text=Pig%20butchering%20is%20an%20investment,exchange%20to%20purchase%20crypto%20assets.
- Scam centres in Cambodia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scam/_centers/_in/_Cambodia#
- Blue Dragon Children’s Foundation: https://www.bluedragon.org/
- Chen Zhi, the young tycoon accused of masterminding a multibillion-dollar international fraud network: https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/24/asia/cambodia-scams-chen-zhi-prince-group-intl-hnk
- Federal Trade Commission data shows US consumers lost over $12.5 billion to fraud in 2024: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2025/03/new-ftc-data-show-big-jump-reported-losses-fraud-125-billion-2024#:~:text=Newly%20released%20Federal%20Trade%20Commission,all%20other%20payment%20methods%20combined.
- UNODC 2025 Technical Policy Report: Inflection Point: Global Implications of Scam Centres, * Underground Banking and Illicit Online Marketplaces in Southeast Asia: https://www.unodc.org/roseap/uploads/documents/Publications/2025/Inflection_Point_2025.pdf
- UNODC 2023 Policy Report: Casinos, cyber fraud, and trafficking in persons for forced criminality in Southeast Asia: https://www.unodc.org/roseap/uploads/documents/Publications/2023/TiP_for_FC_Policy_Report.pdf
- South Korea sanctions 15 individuals, 132 entities over online scams in Southeast Asia: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/s-korea-sanctions-15-individuals-132-entities-over-online-scams-in-southeast-asia/ar-AA1RfgLi?apiversion=v2&domshim=1&noservercache=1&noservertelemetry=1&batchservertelemetry=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1
- More than 1,000 arrested in Cambodian cyber-scam raids: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/7/16/more-than-1000-arrested-in-cambodian-cyber-scam-raids
Further Reading:
- Mark Bo’s bio: https://www.versobooks.com/en-ca/blogs/authors/bo-mark?srsltid=AfmBOopSu7unvmVdZYFG2%5C_BC4teQZsQYrGpPia8vYTx-YfTjZ91h3Ib4
- Ivan Franceschini’s bio: https://findanexpert.unimelb.edu.au/profile/1108680-ivan-franceschini
- Mark Bo, Ivan Franceschini and Ling Li, Scam: Inside Southeast Asia’s Cybercrime Compounds (Verso, 2025)
Credits:
Policy Prompt is produced by Vass Bednar and Paul Samson. Our supervising producer is Tim Lewis, with technical production by Henry Daemen and Luke McKee. Show notes are prepared by Rebecca MacIntyre, Libza Manna and Isabel Neufeld, who also handles social media engagement, brand design and episode artwork by Abhilasha Dewan and Sami Chouhdary, with creative direction from Som Tsoi.
Original music by Joshua Snethlage.
Sound mix and mastering by François Goudreault.
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