C&C Pod: Rob Garf, Head of Strategy, Cordial

Bill and I have been looking forward to this one. Rob Garf joins us to mix up a great riff on his beloved Espresso Martini and dig into the transformation happening at the intersection of marketing technology, agentic systems, and customer experience.

Rob is Head of Strategy at Cordial, a cross-channel marketing platform that sits at the convergence of data, AI, and the activation layer. Cordial works with leading brands and retailers — Levi’s, Abercrombie, L.L.Bean, Boot Barn, and others — to orchestrate personalized customer experiences across marketing channels, and now sits squarely in the middle of what AI and agentic systems mean for the marketer’s day-to-day.

Prior to Cordial, many of you will know Rob from his time at Salesforce and Demandware — including his role driving the Salesforce Shopping Index, one of the most-cited benchmarks in retail eCommerce. He has also done stints as an industry analyst, as an long-time advisor to NRF, and as a merchant in the early days of omnichannel at Lids, where he implemented one of the first buy-online-pickup-in-store programs. He has been at the center of this industry for a long time, and it shows. And yes — a good number of you have probably taken a “Garfie” with Rob at some point. We get behind that story as well.

Once a rival, it’s been a tremendous joy to become friends with Rob over the years and now invite him on the show. So please pour yourself something to sip along with us and enjoy our interesting and delightful conversation with Rob.

Cheers!

Episode Chapters:

* Welcome and a deep dive into the Night Moves cocktail — why Oloroso sherry is one of the most underused tools in cocktail building, and what it does to an espresso martini riff.

* Hey Levi! Kai’s contract is up — Bill’s younger grandson Levi is stepping in! Rob explains what Cordial does and we’ll see how he does. Winner-Winner-Chicken-Dinner?

* From warehouses to strategy: Rob’s journey through retail, omnichannel commerce, IBM, Demandware, Salesforce, and what brought him to Cordial.

* What are marketers actually saying about generative AI — and why the consumer transformation happening underneath them is the real story.

* From websites to marketplaces to answer engines: 25 years of commerce shifting off the retailer and onto someone else’s platform.

* AI brain fry and what “process transformation” for marketers is up against.

* Martech consolidation: cost, ease of use, and seamless activation, and simplification.

* Answer engines as the new shopping mall: the platform charges the toll, not the consumer. What brands need to understand about “paying to play” in AI-mediated commerce.

* How the Martech stack evolves in the agentic era — and why the convergence of data, intelligence, and activation is the real shift.

* Agencies at an inflection point: an existential threat to billable hours, creative, and media buying.

* The future of research and thought leadership: frameworks vs. answers, and why the six-month research report is already obsolete.

* “The Garfie”: the backstory story.

* Rob’s post-big-win cocktail order.

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This week’s cocktail: Night Moves

The espresso martini has had quite a run. It became the drink of the moment a few years ago and has stubbornly refused to leave. Which makes sense — coffee and a little sweetness in a coupe is a hard formula to argue with. But Bill has come up with something interesting here: taking the soul of the Espresso Martini and riffing it, adding more structure and less sweetness, and the result is a considerably more grown-up drink.

The name is a Bob Seger reference, which might age us a bit, but it fits. The Night Moves cocktail is dark and composed, yet as comfortable as an old pair of beat-up jeans. Coffee is still the lead, but it’s been given something to work with. The secret ingredient is a quarter ounce of Oloroso sherry — one of the most underused tools in mixology.

Oloroso sherry is a fortified wine from Jerez in southern Spain, aged in contact with air, which gives it layers of dried fruit, walnut, and dark chocolate. It’s not sweet and it’s not sharp. In a coffee-forward drink it acts like seasoning — you don’t taste the sherry exactly, you just notice the drink has more dimension than the ingredients list might suggest. That’s the move. Brian used Palo Cartado which leans a bit more saline and minerality, but in a similar vein as Oloroso sherry.

The rest of the build is well-considered: a good, clean vodka; Mr. Black coffee liqueur (drier and more coffee-forward than Kahlua, which matters); chocolate and orange bitters; and a few drops of saline solution to tie everything together. The orange peel expressed over the top lifts it at the end and keeps it from feeling heavy. An optional grating of dark chocolate on a microplane adds an aromatic, bitter finish.

This is a nightcap that will keep you rolling as you make your Night Moves.

Cheers!

And in case you don’t quite remember the inspiration for this cocktail:

Night Moves Cocktail Spec

A sophisticated, low-sweetness riff on the espresso martini. Stirred, not shaken — served up in a small martini or Nick & Nora glass.

2 oz. — Vodka (Ketel One or other high quality vodka recommended)

0.5 oz.+ — Mr. Black coffee liqueur (a little over is encouraged)

0.25 oz. — Oloroso sherry

1 dash — Chocolate cocktail bitters

1 dash — Orange cocktail bitters

A couple of drops — Saline solution (20% solution; a pinch of sea salt stirred in works fine)

Garnish — Orange peel, expressed over the top

Optional (not really optional) — Light dusting of grated dark chocolate via microplane

Steps:

Combine all ingredients in a mixing glass with ice and stir until well chilled. Strain into a small martini or Nick & Nora glass. Express an orange peel over the top and use it as garnish. Add a light dusting of grated dark chocolate if you have a microplane. If you don’t, find one.

Notes: The sherry is the key. Oloroso adds walnut, dried fruit, and dark chocolate depth without sweetness — you won’t taste it directly, but you’ll notice the drink has considerably more dimension than it would without it. Sherry is genuinely one of the most overlooked cocktail ingredients there is.

Enjoy!

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Be well, drink well, and here is to good business! Cheers! - Brian & Bill

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