Next in Media Charles Manning on Why Measurement Is the Secret Weapon in the Age of Agentic AI
In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down live at the Kochava Summit in Sandpoint, Idaho, with Charles Manning, founder and CEO of Kochava. We go deep on one of the most pressing questions facing the industry right now: how profound is the shift to agentic advertising and AI-driven workflows? Charles argues it is not a decade-long evolution like programmatic was. It is breathtakingly faster, and the companies that understand how to use their first-party data as a competitive kernel, rather than leaking it to the walled gardens, are the ones that will come out ahead. He draws a compelling analogy: if programmatic changed the auction, AI is about to change the workflow.
We also dig into Kochava's CTV journey, from its mobile app roots to building measurement tools adopted by LG, Samsung, Vizio, and Roku, and how the view-and-do combo between the TV screen and the mobile device is creating powerful new outcome-based measurement opportunities for brands. Charles breaks down what holding companies should fear (and fix), why the ad tech supply chain is due for serious consolidation, and why he predicts a wave of take-privates and roll-ups followed by a bonanza of public offerings over the next two years. He also introduces Station One, Kochava's integrative AI hub that acts like a Slack for AI workflows, designed to help teams transform how they work without giving up control of their data.
Key Highlights:
⚡ AI vs. Programmatic: Charles explains why the shift to agentic advertising is moving breathtakingly faster than programmatic did. While programmatic took over a decade to fully reshape the auction, AI is set to transform the entire workflow within the next 16 months.
🔒 Protect Your Data: Charles identifies the two biggest risks brands face in the AI era. First, leaking proprietary data to platforms like Meta and making them smarter without benefiting your own organization. Second, failing to develop a unique "how" that cannot be replicated when everyone has access to the same AI tools.
📺 CTV Measurement Evolution: Kochava's Atlas Performance product now powers CTV measurement for LG, Samsung, Vizio, and Roku by connecting the view on the television screen with the action on the mobile device, giving brands a clear picture of real business outcomes from their CTV spend.
🤖 Station One, a Slack for AI: Charles introduces Kochava's Station One platform, an integrative AI hub that lets teams connect models, codify skills, build knowledge bases, and containerize workflows into shareable workspaces, all while keeping data ownership firmly in the hands of the brand.
📉 Ad Tech Consolidation Is Coming: Charles predicts a significant collapse in the ad tech supply chain, with SSPs and DSPs already moving into each other's territory. He also foresees a wave of take-privates and roll-ups over the next 16 months, as companies use the cover of private ownership to restructure for the AI era, followed by a major IPO bonanza.
💼 The Future Workforce: As AI handles more of the analytical grunt work, Charles argues the most valuable skill in the industry is shifting away from data science and toward clear communication. The ability to articulate your goals to an AI model is becoming the defining talent of the next generation of media professionals.
Resources & Next Steps:
🌐 Explore Kochava and learn more about Atlas Performance and Station One
🔗 Follow Charles Manning on LinkedIn
🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts
Chapter Timestamps:
00:00 Cold open - AI disruption and the next 16 months
01:00 Welcome and introducing Charles Manning of Kochava
01:20 Revisiting a past conversation and what has changed
01:45 Setting the stage - agentic advertising and the metaverse PTSD problem
02:20 The next decade is really the next 16 months
03:10 How fast is this vs. the programmatic shift?
03:50 MCP, APIs, and how AI wraps the workflow
05:20 Machine learning from reach optimization to business outcomes
06:10 From post-campaign briefs to real-time workflow automation
07:20 Why big platforms like Meta and Google got even stronger with AI
08:00 The two biggest risks brands face in the AI era
09:00 The "how" is as important as the "what" - competitive differentiation
09:50 Can agencies avoid being commoditized by AI?
10:20 Vertical AI and why domain expertise matters
12:00 Measurement as an odometer vs. measurement as a decision engine
13:20 The racing clutch analogy - agile measurement for agile goals
14:00 Who fills the seats next? The shift from data scientists to communicators
15:00 Tasks that get reallocated and skills that become more valuable
16:00 How far away is autonomous agentic media buying?
16:30 Guardrails, budget constraints, and agent managers
17:10 Introducing Station One - Kochava's AI workflow hub
18:10 How teams transition from human workflows to AI-assisted execution
19:00 Kochava's CTV journey - from mobile app roots to the living room
20:10 The 80-inch mobile device and why OEMs saw the pattern
21:20 Why OEMs pushed back and how Atlas Performance was born
22:10 LG, Samsung, Vizio, Roku - how they became Kochava customers
23:00 Is CTV performance TV? How should we measure it?
23:40 The view-and-do combo - TV impressions and mobile actions
24:10 QSR and loyalty programs - CTV driving real consumer behavior
25:00 Why AI optimization has not hit CTV the way it has Meta and Google
26:00 Station One as the connective tissue for CTV and the broader ecosystem
27:20 Will more ad dollars flow to television? Charles says yes, and soon
28:30 Audience Q&A - how to prove CTV incrementality to your CFO
29:00 The Machine Zone story and what it taught Charles about media mix
31:30 Why media mix modeling finally works in the AI era
32:10 What happens to ad tech? The daisy chain gets disrupted
33:00 SSPs and DSPs are already moving into each other's territory
34:00 More money in media, less ad tax - where the dollars go next
35:00 Premium inventory, exclusive access, and the sports betting parallel
36:10 IO-level programmatic guaranteed - a bold prediction
37:00 The biggest obstacle ahead - take-privates, roll-ups, and an IPO bonanza
38:30 Wrap-up and closing thoughts