Mixed Signals from Semafor Media Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer on turning foreign policy into a podcast
Feb 20, 2026
Jon Finer, former deputy national security advisor turned podcaster and ex-journalist. Jake Sullivan, former national security advisor now podcast co-host and policy veteran. They discuss why they left the Situation Room for a mic. They talk about translating foreign policy for everyday Americans. They cover media, wartime reporting, AI-driven disinformation, and how information battles shape conflicts like Ukraine and Gaza.
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Clarity From Explaining Policy
- Explaining policy to broad audiences forces clearer thinking about core interests and stakes.
- Jake says this discipline improves policy and communications by pressure-testing assumptions.
Podcast Born On A Hike
- Jake and Jon decided to start The Long Game after a winter hike, imagining a nonpartisan foreign-policy podcast.
- Vox later reached out and the idea turned into a show that tests communicating complex topics.
Narrative Simplicity Aids Public Support
- Some foreign-policy issues resonate with the public more easily when narrative clarity exists.
- Jake and Jon note Ukraine succeeded because it presented a clear aggressor and victim that people understood.