The Bulwark Podcast Mark Hertling: Trump (Still) Hates Europe
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Dec 9, 2025 
Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling joins to dissect Trump's critical views on Europe and the implications for U.S. security. He argues that America may need Europe more than ever and discusses the shortcomings of Trump’s negotiating team with Putin. Hertling highlights growing tensions in the Pentagon and the risks of recent Venezuela boat strikes, calling them performative. He also emphasizes the importance of military ethics and the challenges of unlawful orders, while paying tribute to fallen service members.
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Strategy Is More Than Ends And Means
- A national security strategy is the capstone that shapes defense and theater plans.
- Hertling emphasizes the missing "ways" — the execution steps that connect ends and means in the document.
Western Hemisphere Gets Unexpected Priority
- The strategy pivots to a Monroe Doctrine-style focus on the Western Hemisphere.
- Hertling finds that emphasis shocking and misaligned with broader global risks like supply-chain and emerging threats.
Allies Are Angry — But Will Rebound
- European partners are angry and insulted by U.S. rhetoric but pragmatically aware of shared threats.
- Hertling expects alliances to rebound because the U.S. needs Europe more than Europe needs the U.S.