TCC Podcast #337: Generation Z and Copywriting with Carolyn McMurray

Carolyn McMurray is our guest on the 337th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Carolyn is a copywriter and host of a community designed for generation Z to learn about copywriting. But how does one start a community and grow towards 100+ members? Tune into the episode to find out. You’ll also discover: Carolyn’s accidental discovery of copywriting and how she landed her first gig. Her advice for getting her business started if she had to do it all over again. How she fell into the tech niche. Why she decided to build and grow a community for gen Z? What’s her community all about and how does she benefit from it? Should you label yourself as a junior copywriter? When she increased her rates and began to build her reputation and brand. How to create a copywriting portfolio that stands out. Where she gathers inspiration to write her list weekly. Why she doesn’t take herself too seriously and how it benefits her brand. Carolyn’s advice for building a successful community. Mistakes she’s made in the growth of her community and what to avoid. Why you need something to get you out of your head. Using ChatGTP for writer’s block – does it really help? Thinking about marketing to gen z? Here’s some advice from a gen z’er. Using AI and the future of copywriting for upcoming generations. Listen to the episode by hitting play or checking out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Connect with Carolyn The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Way back in 1991, two academics, William Straus and Neil Howell came up with a theory about a generational cycle in American and Western history. And in their theory, they defined 13 different generations starting from the founding of the American colonies and running right up to the publication of their book. Actually, it goes farther back than those 13, but that's where they focused on. Their work is partially responsible for the way that marketers talk today about different generations like Generation X, Millennials, who are at one point also called Generation Y and Gen Z, which some academics like to call the homeland generation. So, why the long introduction about generations to start this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast? Well, our guest for this episode is Carolyn McMurray. She's a member of Generation Z and the founder of a copywriting group exclusively for Gen Z copywriters. We asked her about how she got her start in copywriting, building a portfolio, outdated writing advice, overcoming writer's block, and what to do if you're writing to Gen Z. Stick around. This is a pretty good discussion. Kira Hug:  That might be your most Rob Marsh-esque introduction that you've ever created. Rob Marsh:  I don't know. Kira Hug:  I love it. I love it. All right, so before we jump into the interview, if you haven't heard yet, we just launched our newest podcast, AI for Creative Entrepreneurs, which officially has dropped this week with new episodes, which we'll share regularly on YouTube and also wherever you stream your podcasts. So again, that's AI for Creative Entrepreneurs. You can also check out the site where you can sign up for regular updates so you never miss an episode as we're trying our best to figure out what's happening with AI and apply it in our businesses and in our creative lives. And, we won't pass up the opportunity to also mention our mastermind, The Copywriter Think Tank, which is, in my opinion, the best place to go if you are a writer and you want to figure out what is the next thing in your business; the next offer, the next product, the next revenue stream. We've really figured out how to help writers create a pivot in their business and achieve that next level result, whatever that is for you. And you can learn more about that mastermind and coaching experience at copywriterthinktank.com. Rob Marsh:  Okay, let's kick off our episode with Carolyn McMurray. Carolyn McMurray:  So basically my journey, I'd say, started when I was about 17. No one had taught me about copywriting at school. It was always: become a teacher. I was doing a lot of my own blog stuff and social media captions just for myself, but I never knew that it could be a career. So I thought, "Let's go to university, study business" because everyone was saying you should study business. And, I hated it. I left after a month, went back again to study English because I was better at that. I liked it. It just wasn't wasn't me. I just didn't like being told what to read and Shakespeare ... I like Shakespeare, but I don't know. It wasn't for me. And while I was there, I actually ended up doing a bit of blog writing for this law firm. And again, they didn't tell me it was copywriting and I didn't clock that this was copywriting, it was just writing for a law firm. And then in some funny stroke of luck, in that same month, I found out about freelance copywriting and I was like, "Oh, wow. I can do what I've been doing for the past couple years already and make a living out of it and travel, and be my own boss." It sounded like a gimmick, a scam. I was like, "Can you even do that?" And then I found out you could quit ... my parents were really upset with me ... moved back home. Spent a month building a portfolio and then from there, it's just been evolving up. Rob Marsh:  Okay, so I want to go back to the month of business school. I graduated with a degree in business, actually a second degree in business, but tell me what you hated about it and maybe more important, because I think a lot of people get into something and get started with something that they hate. I had this experience with law school actually, and they don't know how to get out. And so I'm curious why was it okay to quit? Carolyn McMurray:  So first of all, the reason I didn't like it... I think if I went back now with the mindset I have now to study business, obviously running this community is almost like a business so it would have helped. But back then they were throwing around words that I just didn't understand, and I don't think they properly... I don't know, it just wasn't explained well enough. Maybe it was just that university. There was a bit of math involved. I'm very, very bad at math. I didn't stick it out. I probably would have enjoyed it if I could go back now. I think I just quit because I didn't like it. I didn't really think too much about it. And also, I just knew I wasn't going to be able to get a good grade if I stayed so I was like, "There's no point in staying in something that I'm not fully enjoying." Kira Hug:  When did you feel like, "Okay, I can do this copywriting thing? I've got it." Was there a moment? Carolyn McMurray:  Probably in my second gig. So the first one I got, it was good. It was a starting point. I think it was 30 pounds per 1000 words, which is not really normal but I was like, "I'm just going to take it." But the second one was when I started really feeling like I understood things, and I was starting to know and value my work a lot more, and charge a proper rate. Yeah, the second one was for an agency in Dubai and that's when I felt like, "Okay, I'm really starting to get the hang of it now." And, that's a bit ambitious. I think it was six months later, but yeah, I felt like I had gotten it then. Rob Marsh:  Tell us about that process. You went home after leaving school and you spent a month building your portfolio. What was that thinking process? What were you writing? What did you want to include so that you could use that to build your business? Carolyn McMurray:  So I went back home and for me, building the portfolio was just something I really needed to do because obviously I didn't have any experience and it seemed like every job was asking for experience and I was like, "I don't have any." So I thought, "Let me build samples up of my work." And obviously, I didn't actually have anything to begin with, so I wrote a few things for brands, made up, spec pieces, made it clear it was a spec piece. I think one of them was for Airbnb, a blog post. I also emailed two companies. They were both startups. One was a healthcare thing, and then the other one was ... what was it? It was this app for food. And I said, "I'm starting out. I would love to write something for you for free." And, they said yes. Yeah, and that's how it started off because I didn't mind taking work for free because I felt like there was really no other option at the time for me. There were no internships running. And another part of the reason, if I'm being super honest, I love my parents but there were just some issues there. It's not a completely sane family, so I just needed to get out. So that was also another really big push just to do it quickly. Kira Hug:  What advice would you give to other Gen Z-ers who know they don't want to do business school, they don't want to do these other things that have been pushed toward them and they might be interested in something creative, like copywriting. What do you wish you were told earlier on when you were just getting started? Carolyn McMurray:  I think building a portfolio, you can go down that route and dive straight in. That's great. I probably wouldn't have dived straight into freelancing. That was quite difficult. I probably would have gone in-house first and learned properly for a year or two and just had more stability. I'd probably also say there's other options, like ad school, portfolio school. I probably would have done that if I could go back because that seemed really interesting and more specific to copywriting.