The Bulwark Podcast Angie "Pumps" Sullivan and Phil Gordon: The Dumbest People Are Running this Country
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Mar 25, 2026 
Phil Gordon, former national security advisor and foreign policy author, and Angie "Pumps" Sullivan, outspoken podcaster and reality TV alum, debate U.S. politics and Iran. They discuss Trump’s changing posture toward Tehran, how economic pain shapes voter shifts, religious nationalism’s impact, and what bold, authentic political messaging might look like moving forward.
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Markwayne Mullin Chosen For Loyalty Not Competence
- Sullivan mocked Senator Markwayne Mullin as intentionally selected because he's loyal and unqualified, noting he literally stands on a box to appear taller.
- She called him a "dipshit" whose role is to follow orders and "plaster his lips to Donald Trump's ass."
Religious Nationalists Shaping Policy Through Project 2025
- Project 2025 and networks like City Elders show a concerted effort to place religious nationalists into local and federal power.
- Sullivan warned that religious zealotry now shapes policy through groups such as the Heritage Foundation and Project 2025.
Trump's Rapid Escalation Cycles Fuel Instability
- Philip Gordon described the Trump administration's Iran posture as rapid, extreme cycles of escalation and de-escalation that create instability.
- He noted Trump's pattern: big threats followed by sudden pivots, which can look desperate and encourage adversary cockiness.
