On this week's Talkhouse Podcast, we’ve got two of what I’m going to call alt-rock lifers, guys with vast catalogs and the stories to match, who’ve ridden the highs and lows over the years and continue to make fantastic music for dedicated fanbases: John Flansburgh and Matthew Caws.

Flansburgh is half the core of They Might Be Giants, one of the two Johns—along with Linnell—who started making quirky pop records about 40 years ago. They’ve released nearly two dozen albums, wriggling their way into the mainstream on occasion, from “Birdhouse in Your Soul” to the Malcolm in the Middle theme to popular albums aimed at kids. It’s been a remarkable ride that shows no signs of stopping; They MIght Be Giants is still on tour, still making new music, and still seeming to have as much fun as they ever did. Their latest record is called Book—it’s available in many formats including, you guessed it, a giant book—and there are some sparklers on it, including one in particular that the guys talk about in today’s episode. Check out “Brontosaurus.”

The other half of today’s conversation is Matthew Caws, singer and guitarist of the fellow New York band Nada Surf. Nada Surf had a really odd start to what’s turned into a long and fruitful existence. Their first album featured the song “Popular,” which turned into something of a novelty hit / summer anthem back in 1996. It wasn’t particularly representative of the band’s smart, layered pop—which is no knock on “Popular” itself—which confused their record label, Elektra. But after a bit of a slow period, Nada Surf found their way into indie-rock hearts with 2002’s Let Go, and they’ve earned a place in those hearts ever since. The tenth Nada Surf album came out earlier this year, and it’s among their best. It also features a surprisingly high number of more uptempo songs, as Flansburgh mentions in this chat. Check out “Second Skin” from Nada Surf’s newest album Moon Mirror.

In this chat Flansburgh and Caws take a deep dive into the genesis of “Popular,” which Caws had no idea would be a hit but is happy to still play. They also chat about Flansburgh’s love of the new Nada Surf record, both of their time on the same major label in the 1990s, and whether it’s appropriate for a band to take a group bow at the end of a good show. Enjoy.

0:00 – Intro

2:42 – Start of the chat

2:58 – Welcome to Fresh Air

9:45 – The unusual origins of "Popular'

17:45 – Nada Surf's ignoble split with Elektra Records

22:40 – John's theory on Matthew's doubled vocals

32:21 – The ups and downs of sharing your political point of view as a musician

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast and thanks to John Flansburgh and Matthew Caws for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the great stuff at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

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Ep. 9: Ed Blight – CFO of the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA)