Empire: World History

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Jung Chang On Life Under Mao & Being Banned From China

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Apr 2, 2026

Guest

Jung Chang

Jung Chang, author and historian known for Wild Swans, shares vivid memories of life under Mao. She describes brief time as a Red Guard, her father’s persecution, and exile to the countryside as a barefoot doctor. She reflects on cultural destruction at school and how Mao’s legacy still shapes global politics.

19:34

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ANECDOTE

Teenage Red Guard Who Felt Terror Not Fervor

Jung Chang joined the Red Guards at age 14 but stayed only two weeks and felt terrified rather than zealous.
She watched her school's Confucius temple, stone tablets and gardens destroyed and teachers violently denounced, which filled her with dread and disgust.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

Father Beaten For Writing To Mao While Mother Stood By

Jung Chang's father repeatedly faced denunciation meetings, beatings and broken ribs for defying Mao and writing to him during the Great Famine.
Her mother refused to denounce him, was herself humiliated in rallies, and Jung sat through a mass denunciation at 15, which hardened her admiration for her parents.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

A Poem Flushed During A Raid And Books Hidden Under Water Towers

At 16 Jung wrote her first poem calling the society hell and nearly flushed it when Red Guards raided their flat.
Her brother ran a black-market book operation hiding rescued books under water towers and mattresses that kept her sane.

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Joining the Red Guards briefly

01:38 • 1min

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Detachment from Red Guard fervour

02:50 • 2min

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Destruction of traditional culture at school

04:23 • 2min

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Teachers humiliated and beaten

06:14 • 48sec

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Her father's denunciations and suffering

07:02 • 1min

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Family fear, admiration, and survival

08:16 • 1min

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First poem and hiding books

09:29 • 3min

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Practical organization amid persecution

12:02 • 2min

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Life in the countryside and barefoot doctor role

13:44 • 2min

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Western books after Nixon's visit

• Mentioned in 9 episodes

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Jung Chang's "Wild Swans" is a powerful memoir recounting three generations of women in China, from the early 20th century to the Cultural Revolution. It offers a poignant and intimate perspective on the tumultuous changes that shaped modern China. The narrative spans political upheaval, social transformation, and personal struggles, providing a rich tapestry of Chinese history. Chang's vivid storytelling and unflinching honesty make this a compelling read for anyone seeking to understand the complexities of China's past. The book's impact lies in its ability to humanize history, revealing the profound impact of political events on individual lives.

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This book by David Halberstam examines the decisions that led to the United States' involvement in the Vietnam War, particularly highlighting the roles of academics and intellectuals in President John F. Kennedy's administration. It delves into the lives and policies of key figures such as Robert McNamara, McGeorge Bundy, and Dean Rusk, and critiques the 'whiz kids' who implemented policies that often defied common sense. The book covers the period from 1960 to 1965 and beyond, providing a detailed account of the strategic blunders and moral crises that characterized the U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

To listen to the full bonus episode, join the Empire Club at empirepoduk.com.

Wild Swans author, Jung Chang, joins William to discuss her family’s harrowing experiences during Mao’s Cultural Revolution and how Xi Jinping continues his memory in China today.

She tells the story of how her father defied Mao and paid the price in a detention facility. She explains how she travelled across the countryside as a teenager, working as a peasant labourer and a barefoot doctor. And she discusses how Mao’s legacy in China continues to shape global politics, from Iran to Venezuela.

Jung Chang’s Fly, Wild Swans, is available to buy now.

Join the Empire Club: Unlock the full Empire experience – with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to miniseries and live show tickets, exclusive book discounts, a members-only newsletter, and access to our private Discord chatroom. Sign up directly at empirepoduk.com

For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com.

Email: empire@goalhanger.com

Instagram: @empirepoduk

Blue Sky: @empirepoduk

X: @empirepoduk

Assistant Producer: Imogen Marriott

Editor: Josh Smith

Social Producer: Charlie Johnson

Producer: Anouska Lewis

Executive Producer: Dom Johnson

Wild Swans author, Jung Chang, joins William to discuss her family’s harrowing experiences during Mao’s Cultural Revolution and how Xi Jinping continues his memory in China today.

She tells the story of her 2 weeks as a Red Guard, and how her father defied Mao and paid the price in a detention facility. She explains how she travelled across the countryside as a teenager, working as a peasant labourer and a barefoot doctor. And she discusses how Mao’s legacy in China continues to shape global politics, from Iran to Venezuela.

Jung Chang’s Fly, Wild Swans, is available to buy now.

For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com.

Email: empire@goalhanger.com

Instagram: @empirepoduk

Blue Sky: @empirepoduk

X: @empirepoduk

Assistant Producer: Imogen Marriott

Editor: Josh Smith

Social Producer: Charlie Johnson

Producer: Anouska Lewis

Executive Producer: Dom Johnson

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