S5 E10 - Cordelia Fine on "Patriarchy Inc"

This week, Thomas Spiteri speaks with Professor Cordelia Fine — psychologist, award-winning writer, and professor in the History and Philosophy of Science at the University of Melbourne. Cordelia is one of today’s leading voices on how science and society shape our understandings of gender.

In the conversation, Cordelia discusses her new book Patriarchy, Inc.: What We Get Wrong About Gender Equality – and Why Men Still Win at Work. The book challenges two influential views of gender inequality: the “different but equal” view, or the claim that natural differences between the sexes explain persistent inequalities in work and care; and the “business case” for diversity, which treats equality as worthwhile only when it improves efficiency or profit.

Fine argues that both perspectives misrepresent the problem. Drawing on psychology, sociology, economics, and cultural evolution, she shows how divisions of labour are created and reinforced, how expectations are instilled from childhood, and how workplace structures designed around constant availability clash with the realities of people’s lives.

She concludes by outlining a new vision of gender equality — one that rejects both biological determinism and narrow economic utility, and instead centres justice, fairness, and human wellbeing.

In this episode, Fine:

• Explains why the “different but equal” and “business case” narratives remain persuasive yet inadequate
• Traces how gender divisions of labour operate at individual, interactional, and institutional levels
• Describes how children actively take up and reproduce gender norms
• Shows how workplace ideals disadvantage carers and perpetuate inequality
• Proposes a conception of gender justice that measures equality in terms of wellbeing, respect, and fair reward

Relevant Links

• Cordelia's Website
• University of Melbourne profile
• Patriarchy, Inc.: What We Get Wrong About Gender Equality – and Why Men Still Win at Work
• Delusions of Gender: How Our Minds, Society, and Neurosexism Create Difference (W.W. Norton, 2010)
• Testosterone Rex: Unmaking the Myths of Our Sex (W.W. Norton, 2017)

Thanks for listening to The HPS Podcast. You can find more about us on our website, Bluesky, Instagram and Facebook feeds. 

This podcast would not be possible without the support of School of Historical and Philosophical Studies at the University of Melbourne and the Hansen Little Public Humanities Grant scheme.

Music by ComaStudio.
Website HPS Podcast | hpsunimelb.org