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Mac Barnett on How Kids Can Teach Us to Be Better Readers

May 11, 2026

Guest

Mac Barnett

Mac Barnett, bestselling children’s author and National Ambassador for Young People’s Literature, reflects on why kids read differently. He explores how children spot details adults miss, the radical history of children’s books, and why read-alouds become equal conversations. He also discusses death, libraries, testing stories with kids, and where to find great books.

54:47

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ANECDOTE

Child Wondered If Plane Went Through The Sky

A British Airways flight attendant described a five-year-old asking, 'Have we gone through the sky yet?' imagining the sky as a bowl.
The moment illustrates children's poetic literalism and novel mental models of the world.

insights

INSIGHT

Reading Aloud Lets Kids Teach Adults

Reading aloud creates a temporary egalitarian space where adults and children collaborate on meaning instead of enforcing hierarchies.
Barnett says children often 'better' adults in interpretation during these short shared reading rituals.

insights

INSIGHT

Don’t Reduce Kids Books To Morals

Children's books that prioritize didactic moral lessons often serve adults' needs, not children's interior lives.
Barnett argues this crowds out storytelling that respects individual experience and rebellious or artistic impulses.

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How Barnett Discovered Children as Readers

01:05 • 1min

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Goodnight Moon's Hidden Complexity

02:12 • 1min

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Why Children Notice What Adults Miss

03:30 • 55sec

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The Radical History of Children's Books

04:25 • 2min

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Children Ask Big Questions About Death

06:12 • 4min

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Make Believe's Origins and Reception

Criticism Over 'Crud' and Children's Books

14:39 • 1min

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Exciting Contemporary Children's Authors

16:07 • 2min

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How to Find Great Kids' Books

18:24 • 2min

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Memorable Questions from Young Listeners

19:57 • 5min

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Reading Aloud as Equal Conversation

Children's Writers: Meaning Over Didacticism

29:41 • 2min

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Margaret Wise Brown and the Age of Five

Picture Books as Philosophical Conversation

34:40 • 4min

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Kids Notice Systems Adults Overlook

38:20 • 2min

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Libraries Let Kids Explore Freely

40:39 • 3min

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Balancing Science and Storytelling

43:10 • 2min

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Testing Books Live With Kids

45:01 • 2min

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Listener Stories of Kid Wonder

47:30 • 3min

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Recommendations and Final Thoughts

'Extra Yarn' tells the story of Annabelle, a young girl who finds a box filled with an endless supply of colorful yarn. She uses the yarn to knit sweaters for herself, her dog, and eventually the entire town, transforming her community with warmth and color. The story celebrates creativity, generosity, and the power of art to bring joy to others. However, her magical yarn attracts the attention of an evil archduke who tries to steal it for himself. Ultimately, Annabelle's kindness and creativity prevail.

#34224

• Mentioned in 2 episodes

Sam and Dave Dig a Hole

Mac Barnett

Jon Klassen

#84814

Stinky a Cheese, the Stinky Cheese Man

John Cheska

The Stinky Cheese Man and Other Fairly Stupid Tales is a postmodern children's book that subverts traditional fairy tales. The book features a stinky cheese man who runs from various characters, each a parody of familiar fairy tale figures. With unconventional page layouts and humorous narrative twists, the book challenges the reader's expectations and celebrates the absurd. John Scieszka's irreverent storytelling and Lane Smith's quirky illustrations create a chaotic and hilarious reading experience. The book plays with the elements of storytelling, breaking the fourth wall and engaging readers in a self-aware and comical manner. It remains a beloved and influential example of postmodern children's literature.

#12096

• Mentioned in 5 episodes

Make Believe

Poems for Hoping Again

Victoria Hutchins

Make Believe is a reclamation of wonder and an invitation to return to childlike joy, using nostalgia and memory to imagine a fuller life. The book contains both viral spoken-word pieces and new writing, guiding readers toward transformation by believing in themselves and their potential for joy and healing.

#20824

• Mentioned in 3 episodes

Triangle

The Fire That Changed America

David von Drehle

This book by David von Drehle provides a detailed and riveting history of the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire that occurred on March 25, 1911. The fire resulted in the deaths of 146 workers, mostly young immigrant women, and was a pivotal event in American labor history. The book explores the conditions leading up to the fire, the tragedy itself, and the subsequent manslaughter trial of the factory owners. It also delves into the broader historical context, including the labor movement, immigration, and the political environment of the time. The narrative includes discussions on Tammany Hall, the Women's Trade Union League, and the reforms that followed the disaster.

• Mentioned in 9 episodes

U Square

Price Pritchett

#32800

• Mentioned in 2 episodes

Boats for Papa, noted by Mac Barnett during the conversation, is a picture book that addresses the theme of bereavement with tenderness and visual lyricism. Through simple narrative and expressive illustrations, it portrays a child's experience of loss and remembrance, offering solace and honesty. Such books provide a way for children and adults to sit with hard emotions and start difficult conversations. The title demonstrates the growing strength of picture books in handling serious subjects in age-appropriate ways. Its critical reception highlights the quality of both writing and illustration in conveying emotional truths.

Circle

Mac Barnett

Circle, written by Mac Barnett and illustrated by Jon Klassen, is a minimalist picture book that tells the story of Circle and Dot with humor and emotional depth. Using geometric characters and sparse text, it explores themes of creativity, ownership, and the meaning of art. The book's interplay between word and image allows children to derive meaning collaboratively with adult readers. Circle exemplifies modern picture-book craft that respects children's interpretive abilities while delivering a charming narrative. Its artful simplicity has made it a favorite among parents and educators.

#97681

In the Night Kitchen

Maurice Sendak

Maurice Sendak's "In the Night Kitchen" is a surreal and imaginative children's book that follows a young boy's nighttime adventure in a bakery. The story is filled with fantastical elements, including three identical bakers and a journey in a dough-made airplane. The book's dreamlike quality and playful illustrations capture the boundless imagination of childhood. It's a visually stunning and emotionally resonant work that explores themes of independence and self-discovery.

#2010

• Mentioned in 23 episodes

Goodnight Moon

Margaret Wise Brown

Goodnight Moon is a timeless children's book written by Margaret Wise Brown and illustrated by Clement Hurd. The story follows a young bunny as it prepares for bed, saying goodnight to all the objects in its green-walled bedroom. The book features a rhyming poem and detailed illustrations that capture the bunny's bedtime ritual, gradually transitioning from a lit room to a darkened one as the moon glows outside. The narrative is simple yet effective, creating a cozy and rhythmic bedtime journey that has delighted children and parents alike for generations. The book is notable for its focus on the minutiae of a child's surroundings and its ability to induce a sense of comfort and security.

Mac Barnett is a bestselling children’s book author and, since last year, the National Ambassador for Young People’s Literature. He has a new small book out for adults, Make Believe: On Telling Stories to Children, that is a rousing defense not just of children’s books but of children themselves, as people and as readers. “If you’ve read good books to kids, you’ve probably been surprised when they noticed a detail in the pictures that you didn’t see, or been humbled when they understood something about the story you couldn’t. That’s because children tend to be better readers — more open-minded, more diligent, and more passionate — than adults. (No offense.)” We’ll talk to Barnett about how kids make us better readers and the enduring power of children’s books.

Guests:

Mac Barnett, National Ambassador for Young People’s Literature; author, "Make Believe: On Telling Stories to Children;" his children's books include "Circle," "Square" and "Triangle," "Extra Yarn", "Sam and Dave Dig a Hole" and the "Terrible Two" book series among others

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