The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe 473: Will Swaim—Don't Follow California
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Mar 3, 2026 
Will Swaim, CEO of the California Policy Center and analyst of state fiscal and regulatory policy, warns California’s model may be a cautionary tale. He discusses homelessness spending, soaring energy and tax costs, timber and fire policy, population flight, and the political power of government unions. He urges caution before adopting similar policies nationwide.
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More Spending, Worse Results
- California doubled its state budget under Gavin Newsom yet many key outcomes worsened, suggesting spending increases didn't produce better results.
- Will Swaim links rising spending to higher taxes, population outflow, and an inverse relationship between spending and outcomes in energy, homelessness, and education.
Energy Policy Creates Artificial Shortages
- Restrictive oil and energy policies forced major oil companies to leave, contributing to California having the highest gasoline prices despite large local reserves.
- Swaim notes California even imported emergency refinery supplies from the Bahamas, highlighting policy-driven shortages.
Forest Preservation Turned Into Fire Fuel
- Environmental restrictions halted commercial logging, leaving forests unharvested and increasing wildfire risk as dead trees accumulate.
- Swaim emphasizes lost lumber industries, shuttered towns, and annual catastrophic fires as consequences of those policies.