Undeceptions with John Dickson 172. Reading Classics
Mar 22, 2026
Nadia Williams, historian and classicist with a PhD from Princeton and author of Christians Reading Classics. She explains what counts as the Classics and why they still matter. They discuss Homeric longing for fame, Greek drama’s civic role, Pindaric athletic glory, differences between Herodotus and Thucydides, Roman virtue in Livy and Tacitus, rhetoric’s power, and how early Christians engaged pagan texts.
01:12:42
Classics Shaped Western Thought Alongside Scripture
- The classical Greek and Roman corpus (c.800 BC–AD 200) shaped Western thought alongside the Bible.
- John Dickson argues Christians preserved these texts and they in turn shaped Christian theology and reading practices.
Childhood Book Sparked A Lifelong Classics Love
- Nadia Williams first encountered classics via a Russian translation of Greek and Roman myths on her parents' shelf.
- That childhood book stuck with her and later led her to study Latin in high school after emigrating to the US.
Epic Fame Was Ancient Immortality
- Homeric epics reveal an ancient longing for immortality achieved through lasting fame.
- Achilles’ choice for short-lived glory over an obscure long life exemplifies this quest for remembrance.
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Intro
00:00 • 7min
Defining the Classics
06:46 • 3min
Why Readers Value Classical Texts
09:26 • 2min
Nadia's Introduction to Classics
11:16 • 2min
Homer and the Longing for Immortality
13:18 • 3min
War, Tragedy, and the Epic Question
16:01 • 5min
Pindar and Athletic Glory
21:12 • 2min
Herodotus vs Thucydides on History
23:14 • 1min
Ad break
24:22 • 3min
Drama and Civic Formation
27:14 • 3min
Philosophy's Big Three
29:50 • 2min
Plato's Contribution to Dialogue
32:00 • 1min
Aristotle and the Liberal Arts
33:21 • 1min
Roman Literary Figures
34:50 • 2min
Roman Virtue and Moral Example
36:39 • 4min
Biographies as Moral Lessons
40:15 • 2min
Virgil's Aeneid and Latin's Value
41:54 • 31sec
Rhetoric's Practical Power
42:25 • 3min
Cicero and Political Persuasion
45:37 • 2min
Women in the Classics
47:11 • 3min
Perpetua's Prison Narrative
50:08 • 3min
Did Christians Burn the Classics?
53:16 • 2min
Ad break
55:10 • 59sec
Augustine's Approach to Pagans
56:09 • 3min
Classics, Longing, and the Christian Fulfillment
58:52 • 4min
Gospels Compared to Classical Biography
01:02:42 • 1min
Nadia's Conversion Moment
01:03:42 • 5min
What Classics Add to Scripture Reading
01:08:35 • 2min
Outro
01:10:56 • 2min
#97895
Commentarii (Commentaries)
Caesar's Wars
Gaius Julius Caesar
Julius Caesar's Commentaries (Commentarii) are concise, direct accounts of his military campaigns, notably the Gallic Wars and civil conflicts, presented in a rhetorical style that emphasized his leadership and achievements.
Written to inform and to shape public opinion in Rome, these works blend military reporting with political messaging, serving as early examples of political communication.
Caesar's lucid Latin and strategic framing made the texts authoritative and widely read in antiquity and thereafter.
The commentaries influenced both military historiography and classical prose style.
They provide invaluable primary material on Roman warfare and Caesar's strategies.
#2588
• Mentioned in 18 episodes
Metamorphoses
Frank Justus Miller
Robert Squillace
Ovid
#13514
• Mentioned in 4 episodes
Ask of the Old Paths
Medieval Virtues and Vices for a Whole and Holy Life
Grace Hamman
#26751
• Mentioned in 2 episodes
12 Caesars
Suetonius
#10054
• Mentioned in 5 episodes
Ab Urbe Condita Libri
Titus Livius
Livy's 'Ab Urbe Condita Libri' is a detailed historical narrative that spans from the legendary founding of Rome to the reign of Augustus.
The work is renowned for its meticulous year-by-year approach, detailing political, social, and military events that shaped Rome's development into a powerful empire.
Livy's writing not only provides historical insights but also explores themes of morality, governance, and the role of divine intervention in human affairs.
#870
• Mentioned in 41 episodes
Histories
Herodotus
The Histories by Herodotus is a foundational work in Western historical literature.
It chronicles the Greco-Persian Wars (499–479 BCE) and provides a comprehensive background on the rise and organization of the Persian Empire.
The work is divided into nine books, each named after one of the Muses.
Herodotus describes the conflicts between the Greeks and Persians, including key battles such as Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis, Plataea, and Mycale.
He also delves into the cultural, ethnographical, geographical, and historiographical aspects of the civilizations involved, offering a rich tapestry of historical and mythological narratives.
Despite some criticisms for including legendary accounts, much of Herodotus's work has been validated by modern historians and archaeologists.
#13126
• Mentioned in 4 episodes
Christians Reading Classics
Nadya Williams
#119
• Mentioned in 157 episodes
The Iliad
Homer
The Iliad is an epic poem attributed to Homer, set during the Trojan War. It begins in the ninth year of the war, where a quarrel between King Agamemnon and the warrior Achilles sets off a chain of events.
The poem explores themes of heroism, honor, and fate as it describes the battles and interactions between Greek warriors like Achilles, Diomedes, and Odysseus, and Trojan warriors like Hector and Paris.
The story is interspersed with divine interventions from Greek gods and goddesses, influencing the outcome of the war.
The poem culminates with Achilles' reconciliation with Agamemnon and his subsequent rage against the Trojans, leading to the death of Hector and the eventual funeral rites for Patroclus and Hector.
#55
• Mentioned in 238 episodes
The Odyssey
Homer
The Odyssey, attributed to Homer, is an ancient Greek epic poem that tells the story of Odysseus, king of Ithaca, and his ten-year journey home after the Trojan War. The poem explores Odysseus's encounters with various mythical creatures, divine interventions, and natural challenges.
Upon his return to Ithaca, he must confront the suitors who have been vying for his wife Penelope's hand in marriage.
With the help of his son Telemachus and the goddess Athena, Odysseus devises a plan to defeat the suitors and reclaim his throne.
The poem is a reflection on human nature, loyalty, and the consequences of one's actions, and it remains a crucial component of ancient Greek literature and Western cultural heritage.
#8851
• Mentioned in 6 episodes
The Spirit of Our Politics
Spiritual Formation and the Renovation of Public Life
Michael Wear
#802
• Mentioned in 43 episodes
History of the Peloponnesian War
Thucydides
Written by Thucydides, this work is a detailed and insightful historical account of the Peloponnesian War. It chronicles the conflict between the Peloponnesian League, led by Sparta, and the Athenian Empire, emphasizing the significant impact of this war on Greek society.
Thucydides outlines the historical context leading up to the war, tracing the evolution of Greek society and detailing the tensions and incidents that led to the conflict.
The narrative examines key events, alliances, and the complex interplay of human ambition and political motivations during the war.
#140
• Mentioned in 144 episodes
The Republic
Plato
#526
• Mentioned in 59 episodes
The Aeneid
Virgil
The Aeneid, written by Virgil between 29 and 19 BC, is a monumental work of classical literature.
It follows the journey of Aeneas, a Trojan hero, as he navigates from the ruins of Troy to Italy, where he is destined to found the city of Lavinium, a precursor to Rome.
The poem is divided into 12 books, with the first six detailing Aeneas' wanderings and the second six describing the war in Italy against the Latins.
The epic incorporates various legends and mythological elements, glorifying traditional Roman virtues and legitimizing the Julio-Claudian dynasty.
It explores themes such as duty, fate, and the relationship between the individual and society, and has had a profound influence on Western literature.
#3859
• Mentioned in 12 episodes
Metaphysics
Aristotle
Aristotle's Metaphysics is a collection of fourteen books exploring fundamental questions about reality, substance, change, and causality.
It delves into the nature of being, exploring concepts like potentiality and actuality, substance and accident, and the relationship between form and matter.
This work significantly influenced Western philosophy, shaping metaphysical discussions for centuries.
Its complex arguments and profound insights continue to be studied and debated by scholars today, offering a rich understanding of Aristotle's philosophical system.
#5275
• Mentioned in 9 episodes
Agamemnon
Aeschylus
There’s a certain collection of Greek and Roman writings - from roughly 800 BC to AD 200 - which, apart from the Bible, has shaped the Western world more than any other intellectual tradition.
Today, we call them the Classics.
Many are familiar with the names behind these ancient texts: Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Livy … the list goes on.
But just because these works have a legacy doesn’t mean that people today actually like them.
For starters, they’re hard work. Mark Twain once described a Classic as “something that everybody wants to have read, and nobody wants to read”.
Others dislike the very concept of the Classics because they privilege the writings of (presumably) white men over other rich, non-Western traditions.
But like it or not, the Classics still matter in their own right today - especially if you’re interested in Christianity.
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CREDITS
Undeceptions is hosted by John Dickson, produced by Kaley Payne and directed by Mark Hadley.
Alasdair Belling is a writer-researcher.
Siobhan McGuiness is our online librarian.
Lyndie Leviston remains John's wonderful assistant.
Santino Dimarco is Chief Finance and Operations Consultant.
Peter Kozushko is our North American representative and a point of contact for church pastors interested in engaging with our work here at Undeceptions.
Editing by Richard Hamwi.
Our voice actors today were Yannick Lawry and Dakotah Love.
Special thanks to our series sponsor Zondervan for making this Undeception possible.
Undeceptions is the flagship podcast of Undeceptions.com - letting the truth out.