Rational Security: The “Living La Vida Off Camera” Edition

Dec 3, 2025

Guest

Benjamin Wittes

Benjamin Wittes, a Lawfare editor and expert on national security, joins leaders Eric Ciaramella and Natalie Orpett to dissect recent U.S. foreign policy mishaps. They delve into the chaotic shuttle diplomacy regarding Ukraine, revealing how the Trump administration’s shifting strategies confuse allies. Natalie critiques recent military actions against narcotics boats, highlighting legal violations and potential war crimes. The team emphasizes the urgent need for accountability and discusses the implications of the current legal environment on military conduct.

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INSIGHT

Ukraine Moderates; Russia Walks Away

Ukraine often engages constructively with U.S. proposals to make them less damaging, then Russia rejects those moderated offers.
That dynamic repeatedly thwarts U.S. attempts to pressure Kyiv into unfavorable compromises.

INSIGHT

Europe Reacts, Not Leads

Europe responds reactively to U.S. initiatives and lacks a unified strategic vision on Ukraine's long-term security.
Without a clearer European plan on assets and security, Europe will keep reacting to U.S. and Russian moves rather than steering outcomes.

INSIGHT

Congress Could Reassert Leverage

Sanctions legislation from Congress could constrain the administration and increase pressure on Russia if it advances via a discharge petition.
Sanctions are not a silver bullet but are a meaningful lever that must be paired with security and financial measures.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Natalie Orpett and Eric Ciaramella to talk through the week’s big national security news stories, including:

“The Art of the Ordeal.” The Trump administration has been at the center of yet another bout of shuttle diplomacy the last several weeks, after an initial “28-point plan” for peace in Ukraine it appeared to hash out with Russia was met with widespread skepticism, both at home and in Kiev — leading it to shift focus to a “19-point plan” officials hashed out in closer consultation with Ukrainian officials and European officials, which was subsequently rejected by Russian President Vladimir Putin. What does this chaotic process tell us about the Trump administration’s strategy and priorities? And what is it likely to mean for America’s Ukrainian allies?

“The War Crime on Drugs.” Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is at the center of another controversy, this time over his reported order to “kill everybody” in the first strike on an alleged narcotics-smuggling boat this past September—an order that, intentionally or not, led to a second strike that killed several people who were by that point clinging to wreckage in the open sea, in seemingly clear violation of Defense Department practice and the laws of armed conflict. Hegseth and the White House have sought to shift responsibility for the second strike to senior military personnel, but it’s not clear whether Congress—where Democrats and Republicans on the armed services committees are threatening oversight—are persuaded.

“Unlawful Good.” Several legislators who are also current or former servicemembers have been labeled the “Seditious Six” by the Trump administration and its allies for public statements they made reiterating that servicemembers’ are only obligated to follow lawful orders, specifically in relation to ongoing counter-narcotics military operations in the Caribbean. And at least one—Sen. Mark Kelly, a retired naval officer—has been publicly threatened with a court martial by the Defense Department. How seriously should we take these legal actions? And what could the broader ramifications be for the military?

In object lessons, Ben uses his once per decade mulligan. Eric recommends his current reading selection, "Chokepoints: American Power in the Age of Economic Warfare," a book that Scott reviewed on the Lawfare Podcast earlier this year. Scott gets into the spirit with one of his favorite seasonal albums, "It's a Holiday Soul Party." And Natalie plugs Lawfare’s new Domestic deployment tracker - plus, a fabulous, olive-filled stuffing recipe (just add croutons!)

Rational Security will be having its traditional end-of-year episode later this month, which will focus on listener-submitted topics and object lessons! So if you have topics you want us to discuss and object lessons you want to share—whether serious or frivolous—be sure to send them to rationalsecurity@lawfaremedia.org by Dec. 17th!

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