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Russell Brunson: Hey, what's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to The Marketing Secrets Podcast. Oh, do I have a treat for you today. This week I had a chance to interview Tony Robbins, because a couple of reasons, number one, we are doing the Own Your Future Challenge that's coming up. Depending when you're listening to this, it's probably happening right now. And you can actually go sign up for that for free at takethechallenge.com. In fact, I would recommend pausing this, go sign up just so you've got it. But takethechallenge.com, a challenge about how to own your future and how to do a bunch of really cool things. And so, because the challenge is happening, and Tony and Dean are doing this with a whole bunch of other amazing people, I had a really rare opportunity to interview Tony.

They said, "Hey, do you want to interview Tony for your podcast and your YouTube channel, all these things?" And of course, my answer was, "Yes." But I told him, I was like, "I don't really want to do an interview like everybody else is doing an interview. I want to do the interview based on things that I'm actually working on right now." So right now, as some of you know, I'm writing a book. My first personal development book ever. That's all I'm telling you. But a lot of what is in there, things I learned from Tony, and just principles and things I've learned from him a decade and a half ago that shifted my future and changed my destiny. And so, I said, "I want to ask you some questions that are a little different than everybody else." And he said, "Sure."

I had a chance to ask him a whole bunch of really cool questions. I had a chance to ask him the difference between the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment. How can people go achieve everything, but be miserable? How can people have nothing, but they're happy? How do these things work together? These are ying and the yang, how do they work together? And I was able to ask him directly. So I asked him about the six human needs, which is one of my favorite topics of all time I think and had the biggest impact on me from Tony, and then how he gets from growth to contribution. And, oh... Anyway, it was amazing. It was so much fun.

So, you guys are lucky because you're going to have a chance to listen to it right now. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you the link in, go to takethechallenge.com, go sign up for the free challenge that way you'll have a chance to hear from Dean, from Tony, from me, from Jenna, from Sheldon, from Jamie Kern Lima, from Brendan Bouchard, from a whole bunch of just amazing people. It is a completely free challenge, so go sign up for it at takethechallenge.com and then come back and listen to my interview with Tony, and hope you enjoy it, it's going to be a lot of fun.

And with that said we can cue the theme song. When I come back, you have a chance to hear my interview with Tony Robbins, about all the cool things I wanted to ask him. Oh, how cool is that? All right. We'll see you guys here in a minute.

What's up, everybody. This is Russell Brunson. I'm here today with the one and only Tony Robbins. And we're going to be talking about a whole bunch of really cool things right now. There's a challenge coming up right out in the next... actually, it's happening right now as this is being recorded, and a lot of you guys watching, called the Own Your Future Challenge. And we'll talk more about that here in a minute, but before we do, I have this really unique and exciting opportunity to ask Tony a couple of questions.

And so, I hope you guys enjoy some of the questions like I'm going to be enjoying this because he's someone I've been studying and learning from now for, man, probably 20-something years, had a chance to know you now for probably 13, 14 years, which is really, really cool. And it's not often I get to ask you questions. So, now I got you for 20 or 30 minutes. I'm excited to do that. So, how are you feeling today, Tony?

Tony Robbins: I'm feeling awesome, buddy.

Russell: Well, obviously the challenge we're going to be talking about more towards the end is about owning your future. This is this thing that we're trying to go towards. And especially right now, after all of the season we've all been through, where there's so much chaos and change and everything. Now it's like, okay, let's get background and let's look towards the future. But I wanted to kind of start off probably differently than some people have asked you, just because I'm in the middle of working on a book right now. And in the book, I'm trying to figure out this thing that I heard originally from you.

You talked about this concept of the science of achievement versus the art of fulfillment. And this is something in my life, especially as I'm trying to own my future, and try to go this direction, I've found multiple times where I've achieved something in my life, and then expecting to be super fulfilled and excited, and having almost the opposite effect happen. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts about just those two, the yin yang between achievement and fulfillment and maybe why they're not exactly the same, and how we can have more success feeling fulfilled when we do have success.

Tony: Well, I was trying years ago, I was trying to figure out, how do you really define an extraordinary life? Not just success. Success for most people, I think means getting what they want. I think fulfillment is giving what you're made for. And I think that the challenge for most people is, as we're growing up and we're developing our skill and our ability to start to master our own world, there's at least in Western culture, there's a huge push for us all to be achievers. And most of us have been so rewarded for that. I'm here on your podcast because of it. You're doing podcasts because of it. We both have managed to pull that off. But as you've discovered, as you're now, what, 41 did you say?

Russell: Yup, 41.

Tony: You're 41 years old. There's a stage of your life where you start to wake up and go, "It's not enough to just be successful. It's not enough to just be financially free." You know, I know that sounds crazy to someone who's not there yet, but you don't have to wait until you're financially free to have a sense of fulfillment. So, what I propose to people is that life requires two master skills. Skill number one is the science of achievement, which means the ability to take whatever you envision and make it real. Turn the invisible into the visible. To me, that's a spiritual process.

But how do I go from, I have this idea, to living that idea or delivering that idea to millions of people around the world? To me, that's science. And the reason I say that is science is because it's duplicatable. If I want to make more money, I can go, as I did, interview 100 of the smartest financial people in the world and find out exactly what they did. And they all did different things, but there are certain universal patterns that I did in MONEY Master the Game, and Unshakeable, and so forth.

And when you understand them, if you sow the same seeds, you reap the same rewards. So, in the financial world, it's a science. That's achievement. If you're looking at your health, it's a certain amount of science, meaning we're all biochemically unique, right Russell? But everybody has certain fundamentals, and if you violate them, you're going to have dis-ease or low energy. If you align with them, you're going to have an abundance of vitality, energy, and strength. So, that's science.

But fulfillment is an art. That's why I said, there's two skills. The science of achievement, which you can duplicate and learn, and I've taught for decades, and you have as well, you did an extraordinary job of it. But then, the art of fulfillment. And the reason I call it the art is because it isn't a science, because it's different for every single person. That's why most people miss out it. First they miss out on it because they're so focused on achievement, and they think that's going to fulfill them.

But I ask your audience, even yourself, think of something. You and I have talked about this before. Think of something you've achieved that you worked your tail off to achieve and then you achieved it, and then your brain said, "Is this all there is?" Or worse, how about something you achieve and you really were happy about it, but how long did you stay happy? You made this incredible achievement, took you years to get to. Were you happy for the next five years because of it?

Russell: No.

Tony: The next year? The next six months? The next three months? The next two weeks?

Russell: The next morning you wake up?

Tony: Most people are somewhere between three hours and three weeks maximum before they go right back to where they were because the brain adjusts. It adjusts because we're not made to sit around and just be fulfilled. We're made to grow. And so, the great part of achievement is it causes you to strive for growth. The problem is, people just keeping the hamster on the wheel, trying to achieve more, and they aren't making sure along the way they're fulfilled. So, I believe these are both critically important. If you ask me honestly which one's more important, it's fulfillment because success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure.

I mean, I interviewed 50 self-made billionaires, the smartest financial investors in the history of the world for MONEY Master the Game. I did it over two and a half years, and about maybe 12, 13 of them are really good friends now. And I can tell you, out of that group of 50, and this is zero judgment, maybe four of them are happy people. Now, you go, "Oh, see? Money makes you unhappy." No, money just magnifies who you are. If you're mean, you have more to be mean with. If you're giving, you have more to give with. It doesn't change anything.

But these people, they're not bad people. They're brilliant people, but they're so brilliant in one area and they miss the fulfillment side. To see one of these men arguing with his wife and kid, because they bought some jewelry that I think was around $2,500 and the guy is a multi, multi billionaire. He couldn't spend all his money in all these years, and yet he's got conflict in his own family because of his mindset.

There are some people, for example Paul Tudor was with me the other day and he was talking about a neighbor of his, I won't mention a name, but the guy's in a $40 million home, he goes over with his young son, this was a few years ago Paul did this, and the guy has his own grass tennis court. And Paul said, "I've never seen that." Paul's a billionaire, one of the smartest financial people in the world. And bottom line, he goes, "Your son opened one of the can of balls." The son I think was like five or six or seven at the time. And the guy went crazy. "Get all those balls. When you open them up, they lose their pressure. That's $298."

And Paul's like, "Bad boy. Okay, I'll give you the $3." So, some people, it doesn't matter how much they achieve. They're not experiencing the fulfillment. And it's more people than you would think. That's just an extreme example to get people's attention. So, my whole thing is, the art of fulfillment is finding what lights you up. And it's different for everybody. Now, if you can find a way to achieve and be fulfilled, that's pretty awesome. But most people get so caught up in achievement, they miss that other side.

You think about the guys, the first Apollo astronauts that walked on the moon. I mean, you got to think about these guys. Imagine you're with 100,000 people competing to be an astronaut walking on the moon. And then it's down to 10,000, and then it's 1,000, and then it's 100. And then you're up in the space capsule with this rocket structure in back, and no one knows for sure who's going to make it, and you make it to the moon. You walk on the moon, you come back, you make it safely. There's a ticker-tape parade for you in New York City. You shake the president's hand. Now what do you do for the rest of your life for adventure?

Russell: You can't match that.

Tony: You're 34 years old or 35, I can't remember what they were, but I think it was 34, 35 years old. I got to interview three of them later on in life. Almost all of them ended up with drug and alcohol problems. And they talked about it quite openly, because they forgot to find adventure in a smile. So, they've got this one big achievement. And how long does that last? It's historic, but the emotion of it is not the same as the years go by because we're made to keep growing. What makes you fulfilled is growth. Do you want to know what makes you happy? It's called progress. Progress equals happiness.

If you're making progress, even if you're not there yet, you're going to be lit up. Your weight isn't where you want it to be. But sure enough, you decide to start on a process and you're starting to feel better physically. You lose a few inches and you feel some energy and momentum, you're lit up. You're the ideal weight and you just stay there, no progress, doesn't feel very alive. So, we have to find a way to make progress. And it's different for everybody. Some people find it in music. Some people find it by serving in a non-profit. Some people find it with their kids. But you got to find what lights you up. And again, it's different for everyone.

Russell: I'm curious, people who started going through this, the Own the Future Challenge, they're going to be given a very scientific, here's the steps to have success in one area of something. What would be the biggest thing for them, or just one thing they could anchor themselves as they're going through that, to make sure that they're not missing the fulfillment during this journey they're going through?

Tony: I think it's helpful to think of this in sequences, because it's hard to be able to write and do everything. You know, if you're doing really great in your business, often you're not taking care of your body. Or if you're doing good in your business and your body, often your relationship doesn't get enough time. Or your relationship's doing great, you don't spend enough time with your kids. If your kids are doing great, often some of your finances aren't straight. So, it's the nature of the human being to focus on what they're good at and miss the others.

But you know, I love studying different philosophies. Philosophy, or even religion, if you step out of it, what is religion designed to be? And there are many great religions around the world. I'm personally a Christian. That's what I believe, but I don't tell people what to believe. But whatever you believe, it's designed to guide you to create a greater quality of life. And regardless of what I may subscribe to, I like to learn from every philosophy because we're all human. I go to India usually about twice, well, about once every two years I take a group of people there and we go to a place called Varanasi. It's one of the oldest cities in the world. It's like 3,800 years old.

And what's striking about this location is, the people come there because they believe in their religion, in the Hindu religion, if you die in Varanasi, you go to heaven. You don't come back. Their idea of hell is coming back and reliving everything, right? Rebirth. And so, they have this experience, when somebody dies there, they believe that they don't come back and they're so happy to die in Varanasi. They’ll crawl there, people are dying there.

I tried to save a lady. I was actually helping a lady who was being helped by the Mother Teresa group, and she was angry because she wanted to die. What do you people do, messing with me? And then they carry the bodies there and they burn the bodies. They've been burning bodies 24 hours a day. There's wood stacked about five story high, and then those ashes of the person are put in the Ganges. And no one cries, because they see the body burning as, the teacher is gone and now the spirit is free.

So, I tell you that because you don't have to subscribe to something to say, "Wow, that's fascinating, no pain in death and you have this total trust in the universe or God or whatever term you want to use for it." But they also have what they believe are the four aims of life. And they think about them in a sequence. And I think it's sometimes useful for people. So, if you want to jot them down, the first one in the sequence is called Artha, A-R-T-H-A. It's one of the first aims of life. And what it really is, is security and prosperity.

And so, if you don't have security and prosperity, it's really hard to enjoy the central parts of life for any extended way. It's really hard to feel your sense of purpose when you're worried about whether you can feed your family. It's really hard to feel that highest spiritual sense. It doesn't mean you can't. It just means it's harder. And so, the Indian culture understands that. And instead of saying, "This is bad or not spiritual," they say, "Finding your prosperity, your security, finding the way to do useful work that you feel good about, that you know is helpful, but also gets you to an economic place where you're prosperous is one of the first aims of life." And then, when you get that automatically the other dimensions start to open up.

Now, you don't have to wait, but it's useful to remember, that is where we start. That's where I started, it's where we all start. How do I make sure my family's taken care of? We didn't have enough money for food when I was a kid. So, this was an obsession for me at an early age. I want to do so well, we don't have to worry about that stuff. But it's not non-spiritual. It's about saying "This is part of life that is anchoring in the science of achievement." Think of it that way, right?

But then the next level is called Kama, K-A-M-A. And that's pleasure. And it's like, okay, now that you have security and prosperity as a base, and it's strong, you don't have to wait till then, the next thing you start developing is enjoying more of life. Pleasure is the driving force of life. You've got to find what gives you pleasure. And I don't just mean sensuality. I mean, it can be art, it can be music, it can be serving. It's all the different textures of life, because without pleasure, life's pretty dead.

So, instead of going, "Oh my God, what am I going to do?" It's like, "Okay, let me go to this challenge and figure out how to get my security and prosperity down. Let me think of a new vehicle. Let me figure out how to get money chasing me instead of me chasing money." That's really what this challenge starts out with. And then the Kama side is like, "How much can I enjoy along the way while I'm learning? How much can I enjoy learning? Just the experience. How much can I enjoy building this business from the very beginning or taking a business there to the next level?" That's part of what Kama is, is finding the pleasure in the expansion and the appreciation of life.

And then, the third level is what you and I have probably most focused on, would be Dharma. Dharma is like, "Okay, I've got so much security and prosperity and I know what gives me pleasure in life. And I've found useful work." It's like, "Okay, what's my higher purpose? What is that deeper purpose for me at this stage in my life?" And a lot of people overvalue this because they've tried to make it something huge. You know, for me, my purpose is... I used to have these long mission statements. "The principle of life is to be the most passionate, playful, outrageous, enjoyable, generous giving example of God's grace, as I serve millions of people over the..." Now it's like, "How can I help?" You know?

Because that's really what it is. When I'm serving, I feel alive. So, the number one question I've got is, how can I help? Whenever someone's coming, that's the question. It's a burning question and it's a beautiful question because it brings joy and love to me and to them because most people are happy to have some help from somebody who sincerely cares. And it's not like I have all the answers. It's just, I have a lot of them because I've made it 61 years and I've traveled to 150 countries around the world and dealt with tens of millions of people. So, I'm fortunate because I’m not going to be an idiot, I should have ways to be able to help. So, it's like finding what is it? What is that way of life that is true for you at this stage? You've got enough security and prosperity and of pleasure. What's it all about?

And then, ultimately it leads to what they call Moksha. And M-O-K... Moksha. M-O-K-S-H-A, I believe is how they spell it. And that's your unity with God. Now, does that say you're not unified with God at the beginning? Of course not. It's just like, there's a point where that really becomes the priority in somebody's life. And in their view, yes, you work on all four of them, but you are going to in the beginning, put more focus on securing your life and getting so you're not chasing money, money's chasing you and you have freedom for your family, right?

You're going to, in the beginning, you'll be more focused on hopefully enjoying the pleasures of learning and growing and expanding and building something so you don't miss out. And then, you certainly want to figure out what your purpose is, but again, most people are trying to make it so big so they'll feel significant, when really it's just what lights you up. And if you do all those things, it leads to a greater connection to the universe, God, whatever you want to call it.

So, even though I'm not Indian, and I'm Christian, I still think that general philosophy is a helpful way to look at your life, and also keeps you from beating yourself up. Because a lot of us are pretty hard, including you, Russell, I know you really well, on ourselves. We expect ourselves to do everything perfect, every moment, every time. And life is a journey of growing. I always tell people, "What makes you successful? Good judgment. Making good decisions. What does good judgment come from? Experience. Where does experience come from? Often, bad judgment." That's how you learn, right?

Russell: The circle.

Tony: What I've tried to do in my life, was take the bad judgments and the good judgments and say, "Let me compress decades into days and share with you so you don't have to learn by trial and error, show you the shortcuts to those things." And that's what I've done with all of my events and books and challenges, and everything else that we do.

Russell: Oh, so cool. Okay. The next question I going to ask you about, because the first UPW I came to was in Toronto. I'm really bad at years, but probably 12, 14 years ago, something like that. And at the time, I had had some level of success, but there were a lot of times in my life where I felt like I was doing this personal development, trying to grow and I was trying to contribute. I was going through growth and contribution, but sometimes I felt like I had my foot on the gas at one moment and my foot on the brake at the other time, and I'm spinning around, and I'm just like, "Why am I not moving?" I was so frustrated.

And one of the tools that you give at UPW, that was for me, probably the first big aha I got from you, and I've had so many since then, but it was the one that was the paradigm shift where I was like, "Okay, the student's now ready to listen to everything you're saying." And that's when you start talking about the six human needs. And I looked at it because I was looking at growth and contribution, which are the needs of the spirit. And these are the things I was focusing on, like how do I grow myself? How do I contribute? But I kept falling back because of the needs of the body or needs of the personality, those four needs.

And because I didn't have those things in order, or were out of whack or they would be for a little while organized and I could go over here, but then something would happen. I'd slip back into them. And those kept me from progressing until I learned how to manage those things and get in a spot where my needs were being met. Then I could go and focus on growth and contribution. And I think in this challenge, people are going to be inspired to start doing growth and contribution, but I don't want them to be like I was, where I had the foot on the gas going forward the foot on the brake. I would love if you could talk to us a little bit about the four needs of the body and how we can take care of those, to make sure that we're able to actually go and focus on growth and contribution.

Tony: Well, it kind of ties in a little bit with what I was just sharing, I've just got to get it to another angle, but you're very astute in this area. So, for people that don't know, early in my life, early, I don't know, maybe 10, 15 years into my career, I've been doing it 44 years, I remember I traveled to more than 100 countries and I'd started seeing the same patterns. Obviously, when you go to Asia, there's different values. People value the group more than the individual. Saving face is critical in Asia. It's very different in America, right? So, I noticed those differences, but what I noticed no matter where I went, was you saw the same problems, the same arguments, the same problems in relationships, the same issues with people's bodies, same financial issues.

And I began to realize, while we do get conditioned, our goals, our dreams, our desires may come from some of our conditioning and our life experience, but there are certain inherent needs that all human beings have. And I came up with six, not from a book, just from seeing people and then playing with it back and forth until I could see that I could cover everything that human beings really do. And so, the bottom line is, I found that certainty was the basic, fundamental human need of all human beings. The need to be certain you could avoid pain, and that you could have ideally some pleasure or comfort. Think of it as certainty/comfort.

We all want that because without certainty and comfort, we have pain, we have continuous pain. You got damage, continuous damage equals bad. So, it's actually survival instinct. The difference though, is I started, as I went through these six needs, I started seeing everybody has them. But as I will describe them to you really fast, there is a difference. And the difference is how you value them. For some people, certainty as the number one thing in life. If you change anything, they get upset. If you move things on their desk, they freak out. You change the time, they freak out.

That's an example of certainty. Some people get their certainty by doing the same thing every day. Some people get certainty by trusting God's going to guide them. Some people get certainty because they've screwed up so much in the past and they still came out finding a way, and their brain goes, "I know I'll find a way, but I don't know what it is." Some people get certainty by smoking a cigarette because they're all stressed out and they take a breath, when they breathe in, it makes them comfortable and certain, right? Even though they're killing themselves. Some people get certainty by eating food for comfort.

So, everybody has the need. The only two differences in human beings are, what's the order of importance for you that's going to completely change your direction in life? If you're certainty driven, you're going to be moving this direction away from the challenge. If you're uncertainty driven, meaning it's higher value for you, you're going to be going straight at it. And direction determines ultimate destination or destiny. So, once I know your direction, I know where you're going. I know what challenges you're going to face, I know what opportunities you’re going to have. Okay?

So, the difference is, different orders and different rules. Some people, I got to do the same thing to be certain. Other people, I've just got to trust in God and I'm certain. Right? Very different. Some people work out to be certain. They get that strength in their body, they're ready to rock and roll again. We restored their certainty or their comfort. Some people eat to do it. Some of these ways you do are neutral. They don't affect you either way. They're just okay. Some actually have a negative impact, like smoking a cigarette. Some have a positive impact, like let's say trusting in God perhaps, if you believe in that, or working out certainly does. All right?

So, the second human need though, outside of certainty is uncertainty, just so your audience knows. Uncertainty, variety, we all need surprise. I ask people at events, "Who here loves surprises?" Everybody raises their hand and says, "I." I say, "Bullshit. You like the surprises you want, right? The surprises you don't want, you call problems." But we need some variety, we need surprise to feel alive. Too much variety, people freak out. Too much certainty, people are bored out of their mind. So, are you in the lukewarm middle? No. You got to learn how to use both.

Third human need, the need for significance, the need to feel unique, special, important. Everybody has it, including the people saying, "I don't want to be significant." What they're really saying is, "I don't want to be judged. I don't want anybody to be upset with me if I'm significant." Right? But some people get significance by working harder than anybody else. Some people do it by studying the Bible or Bhagavad Gita or whatever.

Some people get that certainty by way of how they dress or their tattoos, or some people do it by money. Some people do it by being more generous. There's a million ways you can be significant or important to people or to feel needed. We all have the need. The only question is, how do you need it, and is it number one, two, three, four, five, changes how you're going to end up in one.

Fourth, the need for love and connection. Everyone wants love and connection. Everyone needs it, whether they want it or not. Most people settle for connection because love is just too scary. And then, those first four needs, as you know, are the needs of the personality. We all need certainty to survive. We all need variety to feel alive. We all need some feeling of significance. And we all need some feeling of love. When a person feels completely insignificant to anyone, and unloved, that's when they start thinking about checking out. That's when someone will consider suicide, where there's no compelling future for them.

So, these needs are critical, but almost everybody meets them. Somebody meets the needs by smoking and then tearing other people down. You can feel important by making other people less important. If I move you down, I have the illusion I'm moving up. It doesn't really work long-term but it works for the moment. Sugar feels good for the moment, long-term it doesn't feel good. So, you can meet your needs in positive ways, neutral or negative, but everyone finds a way to meet their needs to some extent.

But the ultimate needs that you described were five and six. You got to grow to feel alive. We grow or we die. Like I just said, progress equals happiness, right? And we grow so we have something to give, because if we contribute in a meaningful way, we feel more alive. So, a lot of people jump on and go, "I want to grow and give, grow and give." Which is, there's zero wrong with that. I think it's fantastic. But like the example I gave you from India, your certainty is often tied to your access to food and shelter, and a quality of life, and maybe a certain amount of income to provide for your family. Right?

So, yes, you do need to honor those, but everyone's different. Some people value love as the number one thing and they move in this direction. Some people value significance, and they go in a different direction, because the more you demand significance, the less love you usually get. Right? Because people have been pushed off by it. If somebody wants totally certain, they go in one direction. If they want variety, they go in a different direction.

Again, direction determines your ultimate destination or destiny. So, when I know which one are your top two, I know how your life is going to turn out. And then I ask questions to find out, what does it take for you to feel significant? Do you have to make a billion dollars or pray to God and feel the connection? Walk out and go for a run by the ocean and feel the universe with you. Everyone has different ways. Once I know what you want and how you go about getting it, I know your opportunities, I know your challenges, and I know how to coach you.

So, your question though, was... to be specific, I had to give that context so everyone knows what we're talking about, is, okay, I want to grow and contribute because those are the spiritual needs. Those are the ones most people miss. That's what makes you most fulfilled. But I still got to do these other four things and they're really easy to do. So, I think of it as saying, "Find your vehicle, find what's going to give you that economic security and idea, and economic independence. Again, when you're not chasing money, money might be start chasing you. That's an important part. You have to work your off and refine it. Science of achievement.

Along the way, make sure you find the variety, the pleasure of the uniqueness of everything you're doing, and stopping and bringing it in. Every morning I do a process where I think of three things I'm most grateful for and I experience them fully, and then I think of a blessing and send the blessing to all my family and friends. And then I think of what I'm going to accomplish next. And that sets up plenty of that variety and certainty. Significance. You know, the most significant thing to me is love. But it's like, what am I doing that matters? Let me do some things that matter today. Love. What can I do that's kind? The fastest way to love is to give love, right? Fastest way to kindness is give kindness in a world where the world is pretty divided now, but it's still pretty magical when somebody does it authentically.

So, it's not hard to meet the first four needs. Growing and contributing. That's where you're going to feel the most fulfilled. So, when people go through these challenges, what I always try to do is, I don't just give them the skill, I give them the emotion to follow through because otherwise you can know what to do and not do what you know anyway. So, that's kind of the way I try to balance it. Again, science of achievement and art of fulfillment, and just be aware of them both and focusing on both instead of just one.

Russell: Yeah. Oh, I love that. I think for me, it was interesting because I noticed that when I was struggling to contribute or grow, it was because something was out of whack. I wasn't getting my love and connection or I wasn't feeling significant or something wasn't in place. And when I got to the point where I could figure out, okay, here's ways to make sure that I'm feeling these needs in a positive way, not a negative way, then it takes that pressure off. And I was like, "Now I can go grow. Now I can contribute. Now I can do things." I've noticed even nowadays, if it gets out of whack again, it's like I got to make sure all these things are spinning and I can go back and I can show up at a level that I can't when these things aren't running the right way.

Tony: Yeah, that makes total sense.

Russell: Yeah. Cool. My next question, this is going to kind of transition a little more to the challenge now. Obviously, a lot of people who are in your world and my world, they're coming because the growth, right? They're learning and they're learning, and they're growing, and that part's so much fun for all of us. The growth part is addicting. And I think that's why people love reading books and going through courses and all sorts of stuff. But I know for me, the real growth didn't come from me in this growth phase where I was learning stuff, it's as I started contributing and started helping other people. For me it was, I was starting my business, I was teaching other people. And that's when I first started to really connect with that contribution and that part of it.

I know that that's one of the big things that this challenge is about, is getting people from a growth phase to, now how do you contribute? How do you take this knowledge and these ideas and the things that you're developing and learning, and how do you use them to serve other people? And I'd love for you to talk just a little about that transition, of how we transition from a growth mindset to, here's how I can contribute with these gifts that we've been given.

Tony: I think the challenge is called Own Your Future Challenge, that we're doing. And it's myself and Dean and an army of just great friends of ours who are smart. The focus here is execution. It's not just about more learning and growing in this one. It's like showing you, you've got some knowledge. Someone you care about, bless you, has knowledge and you can take that knowledge and bring it to people in a world, even when it's shut down. I mean, my business, I've got 80 companies plus now, but my core mission with my business is Robbins Research, where I did my events and I've done my events. I mean, they literally, they made what I did illegal because the size of it. I'd do minimum, it'd be 10,000, most of them 15, 12,000 people, somewhere in that range. And all of a sudden, they made it illegal in every country in the world that I wanted to go to.

Australia, London, Italy, France, everywhere, America, all over the place. And so, I had to figure out what to do. But I've got to tell you, I'm reaching more people now, and I'm doing it in a different way. You know? So, the tools to be able to reach people all over the earth, I mean, four billion people are on the internet now and we're going to see another two billion join over the next five or 10 years. Almost 50% more people are going to join the internet. The size of the marketplace of people you can serve is unbelievable. But you have to be able to get the skills and you got to get yourself to execute.

A lot of people, as you said, get addicted to just the learning experience, which is the aha moments, like, "Oh my God, I understand that. That makes sense. Oh, I can change the world with that." But you know, I was very lucky, Jim Rowan was my original teacher, the personal development speaker. Some of your listeners probably know his name. He's been passed away for some time, but he used to always say, "Tony, don't let your learning lead to knowledge and become a fool." He said, "Let your learning lead to action." And he'd tell you to become wealthy. And to him, wealthy wasn't just money. It was like an extraordinary life. It was living life on your terms. It was life that was full of joy and happiness and fulfillment and meaning and economic freedom.

And I think that's what we're really looking to do with people in this challenge, is show them the tools to execute. Yes, you can have the excitement of learning all this stuff and there's no charge for the fricking thing. It's these challenges, my last one I'm going to do this year. I did two this year. But I wanted to do it with my friends because I wanted people to have a vehicle. A lot of people don't have that first Artha. They don't have a vehicle for prosperity and security. And they're looking at a world where the world's changed, it's upside down and it's not going to go back to exactly how it was. Some things will return, obviously. But a lot of them aren't.

And so, your job is to figure out, "What am I going to do now?" And so, where are you going to figure that out? So, we decided to bring the best people we know together to show you and show you how to use technology to do things in minutes. When I started out in this business, I mean, it took months to pull off. But literally the technology can do things for you today, as we all know. And so, I'm very excited about we're going to be able to offer people.

But in a few days, they're not just going to have more knowledge and excitement, they're going to have perhaps a business or at least the beginnings of a business. And maybe even be online starting that out all in the few days of the challenge. So, that's the difference I think we're really focused on here, is making sure that... I always tell people, knowledge is not power. Knowledge is potential power. Execution beats and trumps knowledge every day of the week. That's our goal, is to get people to really each day, make some small actions, so by the end of the challenge, they're really in a place of having their business, or if they had a business, taking it to another level.

Russell: Yeah. Well, I'm excited for the challenge. I'm going to be flying out to Phoenix and hanging out with you and Dean and everybody for one of the days.

Tony: Looking forward to that.

Russell: And I'm actually bringing my twin boys. My twin boys are 15 years old and I'm trying to show them how to control their future. So, they're going to come and sit there and experience it. And then, we're actually going to go out afterwards with some friends and we're going to go and feed the homeless and spend some time, and just showing them some really cool experiences after the challenge. So, I'm excited for it because I'll be participating in it as a student, and also as a one of the teachers as well.

Tony: I just want to say something about you too, Russell, to your audience. You know, a lot of people virtual saying, "I'm going to go feed somebody," but you do this all the time, just like I do. It's not like something you do and then tell people you're doing it. You're just really doing it. And I love that you share it. Same reason I used to never share what I did in this area. But then I start realizing it inspires people to consider something new. And we're not doing it because we're just such good people. We're doing it because it's so fulfilling to do something for someone you don't even know. It's people don't understand what that does to you, to just do what's right. It doesn't have to be 24 hours a day. And especially doing it with your kids so they get addicted to it at an early age. I really honor you for that.

Russell: Oh, thanks. I'm excited. It's going to be a fun experience. It's going to be a new experience for them. I think it's going to be awesome. Well, for those who are listening, if you're watching the video, there will probably be a link down below. But if you're listening, the sign up link to go sign up for the challenge, if you go to takethechallenge.com, that's where you can go sign up for the challenge through our link. And we've got a bunch of really cool bonuses and stuff for everybody who gets involved and hangs out. But that's where everything will be at, at takethechallenge.com. And if you do that, you have a chance to hang out with Tony and me and Dean and Jenna. And I don't even know.

You have some amazing speakers that are part of this, people that only Tony could bring into the world, nobody else would say yes to be part of this. He's got some amazing people who he has a chance to come and hang out with and participate and learn how to start your own business. How to start going from this, from a growth mindset to contribution. "How do I create a business that serves other people?" I think I never understood that was what business was really about until honestly, probably the last seven or eight years since I started running ClickFunnels, and I seen, when you create a business and you help other people, that contribution, you see how people's lives are changed.

I'm not talking about my own. I'm talking about people who've used ClickFunnels. You know, one of my favorite success stories inside of our ClickFunnels community is a couple named Brandon and Kaelin Poulin. And they were young, 22, 23-year-old couple when they came into our world, and she's really good at losing weight. And she took her knowledge and her experience, and now they've helped over a million women to lose weight.

Tony: Wow.

Russell: They've built a huge company that's 70, 80 employees now. And they're changing the lives of so many people and it's one person, one person taking their knowledge, turning it into something they can contribute. And it literally, the ripple effect of that is huge. You look at a million women, that's amazing, but those women have families and kids and communities they serve. And that ripple effects keeps going out. And that's just one person. And so, you never know where it's going to turn until you take that knowledge and turn it to something amazing.

Tony: You think about where we are today, because of technology you can do that so fast. Try doing that 20 years ago. Trust me, it was a very different process. So, the possibility of that kind of impact is there. So, it all comes down to having an orientation that realizes that the only way to get wealthy is do more for other people than anybody else is doing, and do it consistently. And of course, if you add that much value, you'll have value that's added to you as well. But learning how to do that quickly, efficiently, step-by-step, that's what this challenge course is about. So, we look forward to seeing you guys there.

Russell: That's awesome. Well, thank you, Tony. Thank you everybody. Again, go to takethechallenge.com, get signed up and we'll see you guys live here in a couple of days. So, thanks Tony. I appreciate you.

Tony: Thank you, buddy.

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