Dr Johnny Drain on fermenting, zombie ants and cocoa free chocolate

Jan 13, 2026

Dr Johnny Drain, scientist-turned-fermentation innovator and author, explores microbes reshaping food and sustainability. He discusses fermentation’s role in flavour and gut health. He explains everyday ferments, using microbes to turn food waste into ingredients, and inventing cocoa-free chocolate. He also tells wild microbial stories like zombie ants and practical tips for home ferments.

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INSIGHT

Everyday Foods Often Involve Fermentation

Many everyday foods are fermented, including bread, beer, coffee and chocolate.
Understanding those processes reveals flavour origins and preservation techniques.

INSIGHT

Microbes Are Tomorrow's Food Factories

Microbes already produce pharmaceuticals and alternative proteins at scale, showing fermentation's wide potential.
Johnny predicts microbes will be engineered to produce targeted food proteins and ingredients in future kitchens.

INSIGHT

Microbes Are Earth's Recyclers

Fungi and microbes are Earth's primary recyclers, preventing the planet from being piled with dead matter.
Johnny frames microbial decay as essential ecological housekeeping that we can harness for food systems.

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What if the secret to better gut health, fighting climate change, and creating incredible flavours was hiding in your kitchen all along? In this episode of The Good Food Podcast, host Samuel Goldsmith sits down with Dr. Johnny Drain, scientist, sustainability innovator, and author of Adventures in Fermentation, to explore the fascinating world of microbes and how they're reshaping our food system.
In this episode, you'll discover:

• Why fermentation isn't just a trendy food hack, it's been feeding humanity for thousands of years
• The surprising everyday foods that are fermented (hint: it's not just kimchi and kombucha)
• Simple, science-backed tips to improve your gut health without expensive supplements
• How Dr. Drain invented cocoa-free chocolate from food waste to combat deforestation and slavery
• The truth about personalised nutrition and why generic gut health advice doesn't work
• A wild story involving aged butter, wood ash, and an accidental soap disaster at Noma
• Why zombie ants controlled by fungi might hold clues to understanding our own microbiomes
From transforming potato peelings into gourmet ingredients to touring the world in a rock band, Dr. Drain's journey from material science PhD to fermentation expert is as unconventional as it is inspiring. Whether you're a fermentation newbie or a seasoned sauerkraut maker, this conversation will change how you think about the food on your plate and the trillions of microbes living inside you.
Dr Johnny Drain works at the cutting edge of food, fermentation and sustainability, exploring how we can feed the world in a more healthy, equitable and ecologically-friendly way. Part-cook, part-designer and part-scientist (having earned his PhD in Materials Science from the University of Oxford), his collaborators have included Noma's Nordic Food Lab, zero-waste pioneers Silo and the Argentinian Ministry of Agriculture. Johnny co-founded MOLD Magazine, and as an occasional TV presenter his work has garnered millions of views online. Most recently he set up Win-Win, which became the world's first company to bring a cocoa-free chocolate to market in 2022.
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