Psychedelics and Psychoanalysis with Ann Rundel | Psychoanalysis & You - Official APsA Podcast

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Apr 23, 2025

Megan Rundel, a seasoned psychoanalyst and faculty member at the Psychoanalytic Institute of Northern California, dives into the transformative world of psychedelic-assisted psychoanalysis. She shares her insights on using substances like ketamine and MDMA to break down patients' defenses and enhance therapeutic breakthroughs. The conversation covers the importance of tailored treatment plans and proper training for practitioners. With evolving interest in this field, Megan emphasizes the potential of psychedelics to revolutionize mental health treatment while navigating the associated risks.

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ADVICE

Analysts Provide Ideal Set And Setting

Megan Rundel argues psychoanalysts already hold the frame, ethics, and negative capability needed for psychedelic work.
She says embedding medicines in analysis improves long-term integration.

ADVICE

Start Low, Commonly One Session Monthly

Megan Rundel starts low-and-slow with ketamine, titrating dose as needed to learn the patient's response.
She commonly schedules about one ketamine session per month and tailors frequency individually.

ADVICE

Screen Carefully For Addiction And Psychosis

Megan Rundel is cautious with ketamine for anyone with substance use, psychosis, or bipolar histories and favors conservative selection.
She screens medically and collaborates with psychiatrists before proceeding.

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Episode 14 Exploring Psychedelic-Assisted Psychoanalysis with Megan Rundel | Psychoanalysis & You | APsA official podcast

Psychoanalysis & You is the official podcast of the American Psychoanalytic Association (APsA) about psychoanalysis and everyday life, hosted by Dr. Gail Saltz.

In this insightful episode of 'Psychoanalysis of You,' host Gail Saltz welcomes Megan Rundel, PhD, a psychoanalyst from Oakland, California. Dr. Arundel shares her journey into the world of psychedelic-assisted psychoanalysis, detailing her extensive experience with ketamine, MDMA, and psilocybin. She elaborates on the impact of psychedelics in facilitating deeper psychoanalytic work, helping patients with rigid defenses, and enhancing the therapeutic process. The conversation delves into the neuroscientific basis of psychedelics, the importance of proper training and personal experience for practitioners, and the need for careful patient selection to ensure safe and effective treatment. The dialogue sheds light on the burgeoning field of psychedelic therapy and its potential to revolutionize psychoanalytic practice.

Guest – Megan Arundel, Ph.D.

Dr. Arundel is a psychoanalyst practicing in Oakland, California. She is a graduate of, and on the faculty of the Psychoanalytic Institute of Northern California. She has also completed a number of certifications in psychedelic-assisted therapy and has been practicing psychedelic assisted psychoanalysis for five years. Additionally, she has been practicing Zen Buddhism for over 30 years and is a teacher with the Open Source Zen Community.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:07 Megan Rundel's Journey into Psychedelics

01:18 Psychedelics in Psychoanalysis: Historical Context

04:51 Ketamine in Psychoanalytic Practice

06:14 Patient Suitability and Safety Considerations

17:30 Session Structure and Integration

19:40 Understanding Psychedelics through Neuroscience

26:17 Psychoanalytic Paradigms and Expanded States

42:06 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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https://apsa.org/podcast