Episode 35: Creating an Inclusive Workplace with Inclusion and Diversity Manager, Alicia Jessip

What will it take to create a truly inclusive workplace today? How can leaders step up now to understand and improve the current and future state of work. In this episode, our host, Jenn DeWall, continues to explore the issue of diversity, equity, and inclusion in a conversation with Alicia Jessip, Inclusion and Diversity Manager at TEKsystems.

Full Transcript Below:

Jenn DeWall:

Hi everyone, Jenn DeWall here. And on this week’s episode of the leadership habit, I interviewed diversity and inclusion thought leader. Alicia Jessip. Now, let me tell you a little bit more about Alicia. Growing up in a small town in Iowa as a biracial first-generation Afro- Latino American.  Alicia has always had a strong passion for inclusion and diversity. As the first family member to attend university, Alicia learned early on that her path was not only to build a more inclusive community but to be a light and bridge for other underrepresented people to realize their personal and professional potential. Having served in the education, startup, marketing, and now technical sector with tech systems, the nation’s leading IT services and staffing firms.

She understands the nucleus to how every company thrives- by emphasizing their people with multifaceted experience and moxie. Alicia is here to help companies take a look at their current workforce, realize their challenge opportunities, and create plans that impact teams individually and organizationally. Alicia has her degree from the University of Northern Iowa and is the founder of the largest women in tech meetup organization based in Denver. Please join us in our conversation as we talk about diversity equity and inclusion in the workforce and how you can create a more inclusive space.

We are going to have a big conversation today talking about the subject of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Yeah. It might be something that you’ve probably seen a lot of lately as a result of the civil unrest and what happened with Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and so many others. But we are talking about what it means in the workplace. How can we make sure that we’re creating a place for all of your employees, for you as leaders to create a place where they feel safe, they feel supported. We can all work together by respecting our differences, understanding our differences, and connecting? But before I go so far into this, Alicia, for those that don’t know you, could you please just go ahead and introduce yourself?

What is an Inclusion and Diversity Manager?

Alicia Jessip:

Yes, I’m Alicia, I’m based out of Denver, Colorado, and currently, I’m an Inclusion and Diversity Manager for a tech company. What does that mean to be a diversity and inclusion manager?  To be someone that’s working in that space? Because that’s really new for some people. What does that mean? Yeah. You know, it’s funny because, well, it’s not funny. However, I would say up until a lot of what we’ve been experiencing and quarantine, and I would say just a percentage of my job is explaining the functions of an inclusion diversity practitioner and how that shows up in the workplace.

And now I think we’ve hit a point where people are like, okay, cool. How can you help? How can you help like that aside? But just this aside, how can you jump in here and help? And so when I think about what I’m doing and what I’m trying to achieve, really the heart and center of it all is to create more equity and systems that have not been built with equity in mind. And that is a thought process and a philosophy. And my leadership style that I’ve taken from Dr. Nita Mosby Tyler, who’s based here out of Denver as well, who founded the equity project. She’s, she’s just such a thought leader for me. And the first time I’ve ever heard her say that. That’s been cemented in my brain. So it is helping lead and create equity and systems that have never been built with equity in mind. But then we talk about it from the inclusion-diversity angle, too. And really with, with the people that we’re bringing into our systems and allowing and creating space for them to feel like they belong and also create the space in which the variety that is diversity can thrive.

How do you Define Diversity, Equity and Inclusion?

Jenn DeWall:

How do you define diversity, equity and inclusion? Because for some people they might understand, maybe one of those words, they might understand diversity, but not necessarily equity, or they might understand inclusion, but not necessarily something else. So if we’re looking at the three and why all three of those words how powerful they are or, excuse me, they are powerful and why they all matter. That’s all a part of creating that great place. How do you define that in an organization or maybe set in a different way? What does it look like?

Alicia Jessip:

You know, that I think is just a crucial question to really understand, and it shows up differently with some of the clients that I’m supporting are just conversations that I have more as a consultant. And so I like to break it out. And just a couple of ways, I think there’s, of course, the textbook definition, like let’s make sure understanding that we understand just foundationally what these terms mean, but then also more of the working and maybe philosophical definition too. But I think for anybody that’s listening, a really great exercise could be for you. And your org is to sit down and define it first for yourself. Hey, as an individual, what does diversity, equity, and inclusion mean to me? And then for my team, what do I think diversity, equity, and inclusion, mean. And then taking it a step further, the third response for your organization and doing some comparing and contrasting analysis to say, Hey, where are some gaps with how we’re defining this?

And where are some opportunities to which we can start to really build or enhance a strategy that we might already have? So to revisit it, let’s start with the textbook because I think that, again, it’s just so important to make sure that we’re all under a similar foundation. So, diversity, by definition, is variety, right? Having different elements. And then inclusivity is more of a state of quality, a policy to really not exclude or leave out. And then equity is being fair or impartial. So then we take it over into looking at it from a working definition and maybe more thematic or philosophical, just depending on, you know, where you’re at in the journey. And an inclusive workplace, or inclusivity, then it’s starting to feel around that sense of belonging. And belonging of my whole self. And is that happening, or if it’s not. And from an organizational standpoint, I see inclusivity as understanding the value that your employees have when they start to feel included.

In an Inclusive Workplace, We can Hear All the Voices

And the society for human resources management has the definition that I really love. They have an article like six steps for building an inclusive workplace, and they use a choir analogy, and having my show choir background really stood out to me and inclusivity is, can we hear all the voices? Or are we appreciating all the voices in this choir? Are they contributing to the performance? And I think the best organizations that I’ve seen really grasp inclusivity are really understanding how each member of the choir is contributing to just the overall harmony of the entire performance. Diversity now, and more of a working themed sense is thinking about all the different characteristics that we have and could have. And having leadership and your D& I can come up with this. So, of course, you’ve got like your protective characteristics, right in corporate America, race, gender, sexual orientation. But moreover, there’s an element to the diversity that I would say below the waterline, right?

So when we’re talking about the glacier, you can see above the waterline. And oftentimes that’s even just smaller than the vast amount of diversity that lies underneath. And I think that’s the second level of diversity- that organizations that ahead have really started to grab onto. And that’s the experience that individuals bring, that’s the talents that they bring, this skill, their opinion, their education, their backgrounds socially economically things that might not always just be visible to the eye as well, that really can enhance an organization and allow the variety to come together. And when it all starts to feel like you can belong, to really thrive. Equity is the piece I still think needs the most intentional conversation and understanding across organizations. I think still to this day, individuals and organizations are mixing equity with equality. And I will share that I actually have conversations with a lot of peers and in the tech realm that believe in equality first, even after understanding the definition. And I think for those that are listening, I would encourage you all to after this revisit both terms for yourself and just see where you’re landing within, within the radar of the two, because you might be surprised in what you might uncover.

What is the Difference Between Equity and Equality

Jenn DeWall:

The difference between equity and equality and in this instance, like what distinction, are we may be looking for, or where have we been missing the mark?

Alicia Jessip:

So there’s another platform that I follow HR technologists, and their definition of equity is a state where everyone, regardless of their ethnic background, country of origin, age, physical ability, disability, or gender, has a level playing field. So equality, though, is the sameness. And that’s just equal for everybody. But the fact of the matter is, Jenn, is that institutions today are marginalizing and there is disenfranchisement- disenfranchising of individuals and inequity. So to say, Hey, we just want you to call on you for all is not a fair statement because it’s still going to hinder those that have historically been underrepresented. And there is an artist, let me make sure I get their name right. Angus Maguire, I think, is their name. We’ll have to double-check that, but they have a really popular illustration of helping define and create the difference between equity and equality that you might be familiar with.

And it’s three individuals that are looking over a fence, and they are different heights. These three individuals that are trying to look over the fence. And so there are a few different stepping boxes that these individuals are standing on to be able to see over the fence, the person that’s, the tallest has access to these boxes, and it’s standing on the box, even though without the box, they can still see over the fence. And there’s a person who is the middle height and then somebody who has the shortest and the person who’s, the shortest only has access to one box, and they still can’t see over the fence. So the theory is if we were to apply that with equality versus equity if things were equal, they’d still all be on the same box. And two of them still would not be able to look over the fence. So we need to be equitable and recognize that, Hey, before we get to equality, we need to help people catch up that historically been underserved and provide them with boxes so that they can then see over the fence as well.

Jenn DeWall:

Yes, absolutely. Like I love even just the phrase catch up. So this requires people to recognize, you know, one of the basic things with diversity, equity, and inclusion and our, as a leader, is to recognize that there were systems in place that may not have provided equitable options for people. And I know right now there might be some people that are really just trying to think that through and that’s okay. But we know there’s evidence. We can even just look at pay as a basic example— to know that pay, especially women or people of color and the discrepancy between what someone makes like a, what a white man would make versus a person of color. And knowing that there is an example of just an inequity that has no true, I guess maybe this is the wrong way of saying that, but validation and to why that is, right? Because it’s not about skill, then it’s not about, you know, tenure it’s, it comes back down to something that should never even be a basis of judgment, which is the, you know, a person of color like, or having a different type of background. Like, none of that makes sense.

And so knowing that we need to catch up on the things that were put into place, what I would argue for no reason like there’s no rhyme or reason to ever discriminate or not pay someone what they deserve to be paid if they’re at an equal playing field with someone else. But we need to understand first and admit that that actually happens. And as a white woman, I absolutely understand my privilege. And you know, we were talking about this before, and I’ll just share it for those that don’t know me. Because Alicia and I are going to go deep in this podcast conversation because it is a really important conversation to have. But from my perspective of diversity, equity and inclusion, I have a family where my aunt and uncle all, they adopted four children. I have four black cousins that I love so much.

Jenn DeWall:

And the unique thing is that we grew up, we were the same age. So, my cousin is my exact age. He’s 37, and I’m 37. And so growing up with him, watching how in my small town people would treat them differently just because of the color of their skin. I never understood it growing up. Like it just never made sense to me. Like why are people saying that? And even into our adult lives, like my cousin and I are very close, hearing his experiences in the workplace. He has been called. And if for affirmative action hire, he has been reprimanded for being “too brotherly.” And these are things that we, you know, we may not like to hear, we might say, or maybe you didn’t experience that, or you don’t know someone, but just because you haven’t experienced it, that doesn’t mean that we can’t start to open our eyes to understand that it’s happening. And that’s why we’re having this conversation. And gosh, there are so many different ways, but that’s where equity has to exist. You may not have had that shared experience. You may not have been familiar with anyone, but I encourage everyone to really think like, could there possibly be truth to what you may not be adding truth to? And I, of course, know that there is because I’ve watched it impact, my family, but I want other people to start to see this. Isn’t a way that we’re trying To bring someone else down. This is understanding that these inequities have been there, and it’s time to address them. Like we need to make sure everyone has that same. Sorry I went on a tangent there. You are the expert. I am not.

Alicia Jessip:

Stop. No, no, no, no. I am not the expert. I am simply here to just bridge this communication and these conversations with the hope that if I can also provide some tools and some resources and some parameters, that we all mobilize and change. Because of the fact of the matter, this fight for equity under the lens of racial injustice and really the power play that is our society is in everybody’s role and responsibility. I really, really believe that. And I think, you know, for those that, I think, first of all, if you’re listening to this willingly, the chances of you are not being a believer in the stake in this, and the responsibility of that is probably low. But you might be connected with those that are still struggling with this, or still on the side of the fence. That’s like not, I do not see this in my organization, or that’s not true, or we’re fabricating it. It’s how do I, how do I want to say this? I think. Well, we’ll skip that. We’ll skip that. I’ll come back to my thought on that.

Stop the Silence- Speak Up for an Inclusive Workplace

Jenn DeWall:

I mean, I think part of it is, you know, the other opportunity for leaders right now is to, and it’s what you wrote about in one of your articles talking about that. Now, like if we think about the starting point, like now is the time where we have to stop being silent. So if you are a leader listening to this and you may agree with everything that we’ve talked about so far, maybe you’ve had that, but maybe you haven’t said anything. Now it’s your responsibility as a leader to make, if you’re creating that, that plays for people to feel safe, productive valued, respected for their differences, valued for their differences, that now is no longer the time that we can be silent about it, that there might be some people that have witnessed it.

I know I have seen it and not always, absolutely been comfortable being able to address it in that situation. And I hate saying that because I have family that I know is marginalized by this. So I, I don’t want you to judge yourself for not being perfect and how you approach this, but now is the time. Like you talked about it. I want you to hit that point, but now is the time where we have to stop being silent.

Alicia Jessip:

Yeah, absolutely. And that’s, that’s partially where I want to go at that. Right? And then I, I struggled partially because it evokes just a lot of emotion. And I think for me, it’s partially I’m frustrated. Like how, how can we not see that this is in everybody’s role responsibility? But moreover, it really is the major demographic. Like if we can agree that a lot of the conversation you’ll have around diversity inclusion and equity is stemmed back from the racial that we received, then we need to really look ourselves in the mirror and look at each other and be like, well, where does the power and the oppression really starts to come from? And that is the majority demographic that is white people. And I think to really, really get good with that. It’s not a, I’m angry at you, Jenn. Like how dare you. It is like, Hey, what can you help do? What can you help contribute to the big fight and the big movement that we’re all really in right now? And I think though it breaks my heart, that a lot of this energy is stemming off the assassinations of beautiful black people that it’s creating some awareness. Now that we’ve been in the confines of quarantine, that I don’t want to stop. Especially looking at the work that we have to do in corporate America because that is where some of the ugliest witnesses to systemic inequity lie. And we’re arguably some of the most work needs to be done just considering how much our corporations shift and drive our working world, our social world, that then impacts our personal world as well. And now that we’re starting to feel integrated, I’m even more motivated to really come in and say, Hey, if it’s at the expense of, you and I have a conversation where I lose my thoughts a little bit. Cause I had like still have to push back tears, and it’s okay. And I’m here for that.

What are the Benefits of an Equitable and Inclusive Workplace?

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah, absolutely. So why, you know, we talked about this from a very personal perspective, but if you guys need to hear the numbers and understand how racial inequity not bringing everyone to the table has actually cost your business. Let’s talk about the case, the building, the case of why you want to make diversity, equity and inclusion, a part of your organization’s strategy. What are the benefits that teams, leaders or organizations have when they create a place where everyone can thrive? What are those benefits?

Alicia Jessip:

Hmm. You know, it’s, you can look at it a couple of different ways, and I would encourage people to. You can look at it internally with just your employee base, right? And creating an environment where people can show up feeling like they can belong.  And feeling like they can be the best version of themselves, the authentic version of themselves. However, you want to highlight it. Creating a space where people can show up and thrive because the more energy that they’re spending hiding parts of their identity or covering up parts of their identity, the more energy is being spent that could be going elsewhere and probably could help highlight and impact the business. So that’s just at the individual level, right? And then you look at it collectively and how, when we don’t create spaces of belonging and that sense of belonging, what starts to happen? Well, we start to see levels of attrition and knowing how competitive the workforce already is, especially in the sector in sectors like technology. It really is not a strong business angle to not focus on levels of inclusion, because at the rate you’re going to lose people. Not only is it going to be costly from a, from a replacing standpoint but just an overall intellectual property standpoint that you then are also losing as they head out to another company.

And then you mobilize a group of people that also start to feel a certain type of way about your institutions and how they might not be creating spaces of belonging. Then now we’re starting to look at some brand problems there too, and how your company is really getting marketed out to the world. So that’s how I could just sum it up from an internal standpoint. Then I want to look at it externally at the very least, if you can’t justify or really understand why the case for diversity would be important internally, then look at it externally, who are your demographics that are purchasing or connected to your business and how are you reflecting their makeup? Because that’s where we really start to leverage, buy it, and leverage it for a way that actually benefits us. If we can match more of the demographic internally from our client base externally, there’s going to be some similarities, some likeliness, some, some likeness that’s going to be embedded.

That’s going to set your business up for more success. So anytime I’m having a conversation with somebody in the tech sector, a colleague at maybe a client at the leadership level, that’s still like, eh, I’m not all the way bought in, but I know my boss is really harping on this, but I’m going to focus on D, E and I. What can you all do? I really challenged them to think about their customer base, and the reflection of their customer base and where they’re at within that spectrum to help highlight that, Hey, at the very least, look at it from the business standpoint, in that manner. And the other thing that I would add to that really, aside from people just doing their own searches to really get some great understanding. I know McKinsey and company probably has some of the best-curated content out there for making the case to why DNI better serves your businesses and all levels, small, medium, large, internationally here locally within the United States.

How do we create a Sustainable Inclusive Workplace?

Jenn DeWall:

You know, we’re having the, obviously this big, big talk, and right now we’re in the middle of, you can call it a movement, and there’s a lot of organizations that maybe are jumping on, and they really want to create more, a more diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplace. But how do we make sure that it’s not just a moment in time? That this is actually something that is sustainable, that it starts from here until the end of time? It’s not something that they’re just doing in the back half of 2020, because we see it on the news. How do we make that sustainable in an organization?

Alicia Jessip:

That is, I could piece that apart so much and help direct. And I think the short answer it is going to really, really be varied from organization to organization. So I think that’s really important to know. I think if I could offer some holistic pieces of advice in regards to how we can make sure it’s going to be sustainable. I think the first thing that we need to come to terms with, and this is something that I wake up every morning, really noting for myself, but that still fuels me to keep on this mission is that I don’t know. Well, first, if we can agree that the heart of this work is really to create equity, I don’t know, Jenn, if truly that we are going to achieve that in our lifetime. I just, I think this will be a fight that will go on after my last breath in this world. And there is power within that because that to me is leaving and creating a long-lasting legacy.

 

And so when I think about, okay, how can I help? Or what can I, what can I share to really incite organizations to make this sustainable? It’s not the passion where I see people falter, because if anything, right now, one could say, this is the most passionate, come-to awakening. We’ve really seen our society have a lot in terms of some of the racial, unsettling injustice that we’ve witnessed, and through different mediums, social media become way more accessible than maybe what we’ve had historically in the access to one another that I think has definitely heightened that. So it’s not the emotional aspect, it’s the logical piece of it. And the logic to drive programs that will then be sustainable. So I think for people that are listening that have that passion and desire, which is probably why they’re showing up to listen to this podcast, I encourage them to start to put some parameters that are programmatic, that will then help you be sustainable and really plant some roots in now and the way in which you do, that might be a little different.

Change Management is Key to Creating an Inclusive Workplace

Alicia Jessip:

But I think the basics really understand that this work is organizational change management. And it was my current director, Franklin Reed, that helped me really understand that is that when we talk about organizational change management, we’re also talking behavioral change management and that is connecting to hearts, but also connecting to minds. And I think back to the business case for why diversity and inclusion are important is because we know that it can help enhance your business. So let’s take a logical approach to enhancing that business, maybe looking at some key performance indicators, categorizing and identifying, reviewing, resolving risks that you might come up with, defining your timelines, strategizing and looking at improvements along the way we set, Hey, can we get this through our lifetime? Like how do we create sustainability through a lifetime? That’s gonna take a lot of iterations and a lot of revisits and probably some tweaks along the way.

Alicia Jessip:

And that is okay because it shows that that nimbleness that we need in this, the second piece, this is around the organizational change management. I think taking an approach like that to seed in a really strong program will that help it make it be sustainable? And that’s really understanding the current state of your organization, probably through some data, Hey, maybe you can work with your talent acquisition teams, your internal recruiters, you know, succession, what it looks like from hiring pay, attrition, demographics, ethnicity reports, et cetera, looking at the current state and then coming together to collaborate with the correct stakeholders and people needed to say, what’s our future state. We’re where are we trying to go within this? And remember taking it back to what I said at the beginning. Once you foundationally understand what diversity means for your collective, what inclusion means for your collective and then what equity means for your collective and then the transitions from there, or, you know, again, back to the communication. And sometimes I giggle because I’m like, this sounds silly, but I’m like, no, like it’s really groups out here that struggle communicating with each other, The leadership engagement, the organizational alignment, the readiness for it, the vision and the value, and then realizing what training and support will coincide with that, to keep that sustainable program nimble and thriving.

Jenn DeWall:

I love that. How you, you know, how you describe it in terms of this is a behavioral change management strategy, and it changed management. And I think people sometimes forget that to, you know, change the behavior. It’s going to take a lot of reinforcement. It’s going to take a lot of communication. It’s going to require us to look at our areas of opportunity or what needs to be let go of, but we also need to understand that it is also emotional to people to hold on to things. They become afraid. There might be people that have been marginalized that are afraid to speak up. There might be, you know, there’s a lot of reasons, but we do need to recognize this as a change strategy, we are changing the essential attitude or culture, if you will, of your organization for how you’re going to embrace and look at diversity as just this great gift that’s going to strengthen in so many different ways, the offerings, the ability for you to drive results. I mean, so many benefits of that.

Where do Leaders Begin to Build an Inclusive Workplace?

Jenn DeWall:

You talked about the conversational piece because that is one of the more challenging pieces that there’s a level of discomfort that I think comes from all sides of it. Like, how do I talk about this? How do I share my experiences about being marginalized, where people will take me seriously and not just say, well, I haven’t seen that. So that couldn’t happen. Or how do I show someone that I am there to support and be an ally and advocate? And that I, as a leader, I’m not going to tolerate any of, all of that or any level of discrimination. How do we start to be bold and have those conversations that we might be a little nervous because we’ve not had them before? How do we start to have those? Or what can leaders do to even begin?

Alicia Jessip:

You know, I think back to the article that I had put out there around silence- titled Your Silence is Betrayal. And especially at the leadership level now is more urgent. It’s never been more urgent for you to show up and hold that space for your teams to engage in this dialogue because both the times are unfortunate. If I can be a person on the side of optimism for a second, I can only think about beautiful experiences that have derived from space being held in which I can get to know my colleagues and my peers on a deeper level. And that, to me, is really the essence of work-life integration. I think historically our organizations and our working organizations were set up in a way that said, Hey, Jenn, you know, we’re not going to talk about politics here. We’re not going to talk about religion. We’re not going to talk about certain things. And for a long time, we have been conditioned to deem that as inappropriate.

But now what we’re witnessing again under such really, really bad times is that, Hey, Alicia, I know you just saw over the weekend, another unarmed black man being shot at the hands of police. But when you log in for your 8:00 AM standup meeting, can you compartmentalize that? Can you leave that there because we just, we don’t, that doesn’t really fit within our culture and our values? And you can’t do that. You can’t, that’s not fair. And I really don’t know how, from a humanity standpoint, we can ask that. So now it’s, Hey, maybe we’re not going to be able to identify the crux of all the racial and social inequity that has been embedded into the founding of the United States. But can we take a look at our organization and see where there are opportunities and gaps and which things are a little inequitable or non-equal in certain parts and determine how collectively we can focus on this to move our business forward.

I don’t think that’s a hard ask at all. In fact, I think that is the necessary app to grow and advance your business. And that was what I was going to say earlier that I think people need to realize and be okay, not tiptoeing around diversity and inclusion yields, business results. We are a capitalistic world. Let’s just honor the capitalism that was in that. It’s not mainly just to make me feel good around, Oh, there’s more people that look like me in this organization. It’s Hey, more people like me that can contribute great information, and great value added is going to move this business forward. It is okay to say that D and I yields business results. Yes.

Emotional Intelligence is Needed for an Inclusive Workplace

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. Well, and just being like having the conversation and, you know, just being, you being willing to talk about it, I love that. Not making it taboo. Like I know that in the earlier part of my career where I’ve absolutely worked for an organization where you did not talk about politics, right? That was so taboo, but gone are the days. And I think the pandemic, you know, combined with everything that we see as a result of George Floyd and just all of the, like all of the issues with the black lives matter movement, you know, it’s now just finally an opportunity for us to, wow, finally have those conversations. Wow. Finally, like reflect and say like, what has been happening that I’ve been allowing to happen? Wow, what’s my role in this to be able to help make it a great place for people to live and work. And of course, yes, we know that the business is going to have results because then you’re not forcing people to compartmentalize. And that’s where I was going with this, you know, gone are the days that we can just pretend that people don’t have emotions or that things that happen outside of the workplace, don’t walk in the door with your employee. They absolutely do.

And what your employee needs from you as a leader is knowing that you are a safe space. That even the stuff that’s happening outside, that you are not going to be discriminated against. You are not going to have to bear the burden of that in your place, because you’re in an organization that sees you, that values you, that wants you there. And it’s okay to be emotional about it. How could you not? How could you not be emotional or have a variety of different attitudes where it, and I think this is just a great time for leaders to really step up and recognize that emotions are a real part of work. We spent a third of our lives at work, and we’re going to have emotions that come into work, and we need to make sure that we’re listening to that and that, Hey, if there is something that’s going on, like not being afraid to have the conversation, like checking in with someone, especially during, you know, right after George Floyd.

Jenn DeWall:

And even obviously still today, like, are you checking in with your people of color and doing it in a sensitive way where you’re not like, well, you must have something to say about this. Like, you can’t make that assumption either, but saying like, Hey, how are you doing, given everything that’s happening outside? Are you feeling okay? Do you need a minute? I mean, if I tell you, I feel like it’s far more easy for someone to say like, Oh my, you know, outside of this, like I have a really sick grandmother and they’ll be like, Oh, you know, no big deal, like take time for you. But if I say, Hey, like outside of this, there is something that’s really making me feel unsafe. It’s making me feel marginalized. We don’t necessarily extend that same courtesy. And we have to start to do that. We have to start to say like, yeah, why do you need some time? Or do you need to talk about this? Like I get how that could emotionally impact you,

Don’t Get Stuck in Guilt

Alicia Jessip:

Facts, facts, facts! Sing it, gal! And, you know, that’s also something that I really put in my article that fueled a lot of my passion and energy around that with comparing what we saw weeks after COVID and how that gap in leadership really shifted. I think in due to historically not being conditioned and probably leaders not having the feeling like they were equipped with the right tools and the resources because of the shock in which they might have felt. And I think that’s something that as a practitioner, I am signing up for this work to help curate, but I want to just remind people and encourage people that beyond, but a couple of tools that I could help frame and put together, it really is just coming down to compassion. At the center of this, the human connection and recognizing you know, who we’re talking to on the other side of the table, regardless of what they look like.

And I want to touch on something too, that you just brought up with, you know, Hey, checking in on our underrepresented employees, definitely, but also another side to this is people who are in the majority group, white people that have since felt this overwhelming sense of guilt and their emotions, given everything that’s happening, what do I do? Where do I go? I feel so overwhelmed. I’m so emotional, I’m upset. And while I think guilt is absolutely such a valuable emotion to feel. It should be just one of the first emotions that are felt and not something you harbor in, because that then starts to get projected and actually starts to smother, probably your colleagues who are already underrepresented and really doesn’t enact change.

I think guilt can be an incredible feeling to help mobilize change. So for anyone that’s listening, that’s been in that space for a minute because you’re not quite sure where to go. Maybe your organization hasn’t provided clear direction that we were saying earlier, like, Hey, we can’t clearly take on everything as it relates to systemic inequity, but we can definitely funnel it into what’s appropriate for our organization to make change. And if that hasn’t happened yet, I can understand maybe some of the feelings of that continued guilt, but I encourage you to maybe take on that leadership for yourself and figure out avenues to which you can have conversations that will then drive change. We can’t have everybody sitting up in guilt right now.

Don’t Just Talk About it – Be About it

Jenn DeWall:

You know, I have to say that because I do feel guilt. Sometimes I have absolutely like I would say probably 85, 90% of the time I will address any type of like anything that I hear where I’m like, that’s not okay, but there are still instances where I went silent, and those make me feel bad. Not only for my for my family members that are people of color, because I feel like I let them down, but I can’t live there. I have to own it. I have to recognize that, and you know what? There are still some times where I didn’t show up in the way that as a leader, I should have shown up, and I have to own it. I’ve talked about it. It’s even uncomfortable for me. Cause if I know my family hears this, like I don’t want them to know that I’m not, you know, always addressing that 100% of the time, but I also can’t live there because then I’m not going to be able to make change. And I also can’t live there because then I can’t show people that we’re not expecting you to be perfect 100% of the time and how you address this, but you’ve got to keep working for that future state. Like you’ve got to think about what you need to create, how you can do better, how you can make it. And it’s not just talking about it. It’s actually about it. Right? You have to own that stuff. Can’t let it control you, but you have own what your areas of opportunity are, where maybe your missteps were. It might feel uncomfortable, but if you don’t change it, then you’re only going to prolong the problem. And it just starts with the owner owning it. And I hope that by me even being vulnerable with saying that, yeah, I am not 100% perfect and how I approach this in any way. But I do know the case. I understand the why, and I’m going to keep doing better, and I’m going to keep working harder. That’s the attitude that you’ve got to have with this. You can’t live in your shame. You know, it’s just not going to be a productive thing for anyone, for your workforce, for your team members if you live in what you could have done differently when you have all of these choices in front of you right now to make different choices.

You Don’t Have to Be Perfect

Alicia Jessip:

Absolutely! No, and I love you sharing, you know, some of like, Hey, this feels vulnerable for me because here’s the thing that it does for me too. Right? I’ve, I’ve been getting a little tongue-tied earlier because it’s the emotions that I feel the, all the things I want to say. It’s just a short amount of time that the advice I want to give the tool that I want to provide the suggestions I have, and I don’t have the answers 100% of the time. In fact, I don’t even know if I have half the percent of the answers that are needed in this bigger problem of creating systemic equity. I mean, goodness, people like that’s a big haul for anyone to say, Hey, I’m a subject matter expert in this field. Like, absolutely not because here’s the other thing and quoting my fave, Dr. Nita Mosby Tyler, again saying the first time I’ve ever heard this was from her, but there is no current guidebook to reach Nirvana for equity right now in the United States, we are creating that as we speak, it is bumbling on my end through podcasts like this. It is engaging in really, really courageous conversations to break down. Those spends to just get rid of the freaking fence. If we really want to talk about equity and engage with another and say, yeah, I want to hear about that story about your four cousins that is beautiful. That starts to build a connection. I want to tell you a little bit about my background because that is beautiful and that starts to build a connection. And that’s how we’re going to get through this. That is absolutely the hill that I’m willing to die on. When people ask me like, well, where do you see the future state of all of this?

I see my role no longer even needing to exist, like truly trying to work myself out of a job, but I see just that beautiful connection between humanity starting to foster and happen. Now, will there always be cases of, of power in our being, probably because I think that’s just how humans are. I mean, we could probably invite somebody more biological focus on the next stop to help the answer. Some of that in regards to just our human evolution. But nonetheless, that’s where I really see the future state is us being open to engaging and just understanding each other at such a deeper level where then we feel empowered and encouraged to come up as individuals and the environment is already set up for us to belong.

Jenn DeWall:

My gosh, I love this conversation so much because it needs to happen. And it’s, you know, it can feel, there are no perfect answers. I love that distinction that you made that there’s not a perfect handbook that’s going to tell you how to guide this, but there is the initial mindset, like the belief that you know, we can make a change and we can make this look differently, and we can create a place that everyone, no matter what their background is, their gender, their race, their disability, where they feel included. You know, we, we went through this, but I really do want to share your tips that you shared because people are really thinking like, how do I start? Well, obviously, mindset. And you touched on one of the first ones from your article, which is hold space. But you also talked about, don’t be afraid to trip up on your words.

And I think that this piece is really important because that’s going to be the barrier. That’s going to keep people from not having the conversation because they don’t know the perfect thing to say. What did you mean by that? Or how, like, how would you, if you were sitting down talking to our leaders, which is, you know, our audience for Crestcom, how would you tell them to, you know, not be afraid to trip up on your own words?

Understand the Impact of Intent

So a part of me was putting that together based on experiences that I have had as a woman of color in the tech sector, but also how I move through organizations as a leader. And that’s something I really, really value for myself and believe for myself, I can’t be out here afraid to trip up on my words. Now there is research that I for sure have to own, right? Whether it be on a client meeting and doing my due diligence to understand business challenges, forecasts, whatever that prepare me. But still when I show up, I’m not worried about the nuts and bolts of how perfect I might sound because, Hey, that’s not really who I am anyway, but be it it’s bigger than that because what’s the quote? People aren’t always going to remember what you said, but they’re going to remember how you, how you made them feel. And that’s the bigger piece that I just want to remind everybody, especially as we head into these waters that are going to be unfamiliar and are going to be ever-changing and probably at a very rapid pace. Sure. Do your due diligence and come up and make sure that you’re trying your best to understand the language that’s being used, especially as it relates to your organization. But it’s bigger than that. It is really understanding that the impact over the intent of your messaging and of your words.

Jenn DeWall:

I love that. Thinking about how are you making someone feel? Are they feeling safe? Are they feeling heard? Because at a human level, we all want to feel seen and heard. Do you provide that space for them to feel that way? That’s where you’re starting. It may not be perfect. It may feel a little clunky at first, but it’s still, are you intentionally working to create that connection with someone that space where they can feel safe? You would also touch, I guess, one of the important things to talk about is some leaders are like, Hey, what can I do? How can I bring this change into my organization? What are the potential blind spots or barriers that organizations or leaders could fall trap to that would maybe prevent them from getting that desired result that they have of creating that inclusive space?

Creating an Inclusive Workplace Requires a Strong Foundation

Alicia Jessip:

Hmm. That’s a good question. I think I hate to throw out the word bias right now, because I think that in and of itself deserves its own talk because it’s become such a buzzword, but I think people hear bias and go, Oh no, like not this. And bias again is a part of who we are innately as humans, and it’s not wrong by definition, but it, when it starts to put on blind spots for us, that then, then start to hinder, especially groups that are already underrepresented that’s when it becomes problematic. So I think checking for biases that might be implicit, especially as leaders, is very, very important. But I think overall, when I think about the misses that I’ve witnessed from organizations, as they look on to enhance their D, E, and & I strategy or their journey is you have to start with a strong foundation. And again, that foundation is going to vary, but you need some strong table legs here.

And that’s usually because what happens is let’s say they don’t have the funds to, you know, hire for somebody to do this full time. And if you do, I hope you are because that’s important, but they have somebody may be that once a week, that’s due to the past and we’re collective or an ERG accounts or what have you. And then something happens with one of those people, and they leave, or they switched roles where they grow up in the company. And then there’s not a lot of sustainable foundations left, but I always think that this is like building a house and you have to have a strong foundation and strong support the upkeep, the continued maintenance, again, back to the OCM, organizational change management approach or whatever KPI KPIs you want to implement within that, to be able to continue to check back and say, all right, it’s time to check up on this, or it’s time to go in and fix that.

And then building in a way that’s going to be accessible for all. And accessibility will be up to you and your organization to really understand, and maybe forecast a little bit too, for individuals that might come into your organization that you’re not currently planning for, but still creating that level of accessibility. And then I don’t know when it comes to building that perfect home, and you want it to be welcoming. You want people to feel like it’s the home and that they can come in and take their shoes off and relax. So how you decorate, how you align things is going to be key critical, too, for how you build a sustainable program. And that’s the really beautiful thing about diversity, right? Going back to that variety, your home is going to look different from my home. And that is okay. In fact, that’s encouraged. It’s beautiful. It’s far in that sense, but let’s set it up that we are welcoming new people and inviting people into our space.

Jenn DeWall:

Yes, I, you know, I love again, I’m going to, I’m going to bring it back to how you had called out the current state versus the future state and a behavioral change initiative. Because you talk about maintenance. You know, we have those great genes ideas, whether it’s around the realm of D, E and I, or anything that we can have those. But if we, if we don’t stop and do those checkpoints and think, are we getting it right? Where’s our opportunity. What are we doing wrong? And then incorporating that data. We can’t possibly create that strong foundation or that house that we want. So, you know, remembering this is a change strategy. We’ve got to check in with it. It’s not just a one and done like throwing this out there, see how it goes, that it’s going to require you to think differently.

Maybe you even make a misstep and how you do it, which I know that there probably are some organizations that are, have the right heart with this right now, but they’re probably, maybe are a little tone-deaf because they don’t recognize how they’re coming across. Hey, at least you’re working towards it, but also owning that, like, you know, what did we have everything? Did we check this by how someone would feel? Because I know there’s, you know, a lot of organizations even wanting to just facilitate these conversations so abruptly that they’re forgetting hat this is pretty private, it’s pretty vulnerable. Like you’ve gotta be mindful of that and tactful of how you go about it and check-in like, did you get it right? Did you come on too strong in a way that needs to be made people feel even more alienated? You know, check-in with yourself, it’s maintenance as a change management strategy. I’m not sure if anything. Yeah.

Embrace an Abundant Mindset

Alicia Jessip:

I love, I love the play on this. And I think the privacy from the individual aspects. Sure. And I think maybe that’s where every actual great initiative needs to start is with self and some of the self uncovering and the Y determination there. And this was the other thought that I had earlier that that ghosted me. But it’s now starting to come together. I feel like we’re, we’re getting into it more and more and more. And I’m just so happy to be here right now. But it’s the individual mindset to check-in that’s abundance, abundance mindset. I think a lot of times when I talk with people or catch wind of people that are struggling to want to rally behind the initiatives regarding D, E and I, are struggling with that abundance mindset, their thought process as well. If they get some, what am I going to lose?

Jenn DeWall:

Or, you know, if we’re focusing on these promotions will me as a white man, am I not going to get considered for promotions anymore? What does this mean? And that’s not the right mindset. That is a feast or famine mindset. And that’s, what’s fueling a lot of the inequity in our systems today. And that is a hard mindset shift. I definitely do not have all the answers for that, but I think that, to me, is a critical step that we all have to take. Because it impacts all of us, the varying degrees, and under various circumstances, but this feast or famine, this lack of abundance mindset is what will continue to prevent us from moving forward as a society, we have to recognize that it is a community we are interconnected. We have to recognize that if I succeed, you can succeed. If you succeed, I can succeed.

Jenn DeWall:

If I help you, even if you think of the basis of leadership, leadership is also helping other people be the best that they can be. And sometimes that means delegating to them. Sometimes that means giving them different opportunities that yeah, you could do, or you would want to do. But together, we rise. Understanding that by helping someone else by ensuring that there is equity by doing that, it doesn’t mean that you’ve failed. It means that we all win.

Alicia Jessip:

I know there’s so many emotions. I wanted to cry because it is such a sensitive thing.

Jenn DeWall:

To me, it comes down to leadership and seeing people as people and understanding that the more that we can value and see each other’s differences and also like stand up for each other, like, Hey, if I wouldn’t want that done to me, like, why would I let it happen to someone else? Like I’m going to be an advocate. I’m going to be an ally. I am going to also stand up and have that abundant mindset because I know that if we all have the opportunity to be the best that we can be to be valued for who we are, we together can create greater things. We can solve more problems probably than what we create because so much of it comes from that division. Like there’s just so much upside from bringing everyone to the table to feel seen and heard. And you know, it’s just something it’s so powerful. And I hope that I know in the beginning, this conversation might have seemed a little bit more tense, but really what we’re trying to say is, or maybe I’ll speak for myself. Like we’ve got to create a place where all of us feel like we have a fair shot where all of us feel respected for being who we are and our authentic place.

Jenn DeWall:

And that is your role as a leader. Your role as a leader is to not sit and marginalized people to, you know. Even if we’re going to bias, like to not hold yourself accountable, to checking your biases, like, Hey, where are their flaws? And your decision-making process, your goal is to help everyone thrive. You were in the business of people management. If you were a leader and I don’t care if you have the title, you could just be someone that’s there as a colleague to someone, but you’ve got to advocate for the support and safety of your colleagues, of your team, of everyone that’s in your organization. That is your role as a leader.

Everyone can be an Inclusive Leader

Alicia Jessip:

Absolutely. And I think to add to that too, and just maybe, maybe take it a step further if I may around the call to leadership and to anyone listening because titles aside, right. That is the individual attribute that we all can possess, and we all can grow into, and it takes coaching. It takes constant working on and, and conditioning. And I think the role of a leader is to not only create all that space and ensure that, you know, that that opportunity is there but go a step further and actually remove barriers. And dig up ways in which you might not even realize barriers exist. And I think that is what real leaders need to be doing, especially in our sectors where there are some of the biggest gaps. Absolutely. And then I think, you know, just to go back earlier to what you were asked was, you know, Hey, where do you see some organizations do this wrong? And maybe we even see organizations do this right. If we wanted to flip it, if they don’t make this work a one department problem, they don’t put this into one department to completely take on from inception to completion because that is not actually feasible yet. I think sure you might need a department or somebody like me, an instance that can come in as a practitioner and consult and take a look at the current system. Have that data to kind of back to that level of project management, OCM, whatever KPIs that are needed.

Sure. For sure, it can help support that because that is a full-time role in and of itself. But when it comes to actually breed it into the DNA of your culture, that will be the responsibility of everybody. And that is also another area that I’ve become more increasingly passionate about because of just the burnout that we’re starting to see within the sector of diversity and inclusion, especially at the high level. So the higher up you have, as it relates to somebody in this diversity role, I encourage leaders to really ask how they’re engaging them at the seat of the table, as it relates to business problems. Because again, diverse teams and teams that feel included in organizations and that is equitable, drive better business results. So why wouldn’t you couple that at the conversation, when you’re talking about enhancing your business,

Jenn DeWall:

You know, I really liked that you made that distinction. This is not just, you know, falling under the umbrella of HR, and they’re the ones that are supposed to look at your entire organization and figure out this one size fits all. That’s going to just make it equitable. Maybe they’ll put some flyers with some values, like, no, you have to step in with your own attitude and checking it, asking how I can help? Because it has to be everyone effort. It can’t just be resigned to one department to try and figure out something that is much bigger than them and requires the behavioral change of probably every single person in your organization to see it in a different way to unite as one,

Jenn DeWall:

I have loved our conversation today. Is there anything else that you would want, you know, I know we covered a lot of different topics. Do you feel like there’s anything that we left out or, you know, and I know we’re going to share how people can connect with you just to kind of hear different perspectives, maybe have you assist them, but anything else you would want to leave our listeners with and the topic of diversity, equity and inclusion.

Just Care—and Dare

Alicia Jessip:

for the days that we feel most polarized from each other- fight through that. Because at the end of the day we are in this together, we just absolutely are. It is going to take a village. It is going to take each and every one of us with some compassion and some love to work through this, and this dismantle, this yarn ball of systems that are interconnected and that are impacting us and reasons that sometimes I have yet to even really uncover and understand. So all that to say- is just care, and dare. Just drive forward.  Audre Lorde— I’ll share this quote from her and, you know, talking about the voice and not being afraid to trip up on words. If I am just out here, daring to have my voice heard. And when I dare to be powerful, to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important, whether I’m afraid or not.

What is Your Leadership Habit for Success?

Jenn DeWall:

Wow, that is a pretty powerful way to wrap up this conversation. And it’s a call to action to all of our leaders that are listening. How can you dare to, you know, have your voice heard? How can you, was that dare to care that you had said initially like I love that, you know, give yourself permission to be brave, to take risks, to be bigger, to have an implement that vision of a place where we can all be seen, respected, valued, heard, loved all of the things. I’ve loved our conversation so much that the final closing question that we do ask every single person that sits on our podcast is what your leadership habit for success is? What do you do to maintain your own success? Or maybe that relates to what your current role is, or maybe that’s just something outside of that, but what is your leadership habit for success?

Alicia Jessip:

When I think about the work that I do, and we talked about this too, right? How daunting it can feel, and where do we start and how big this all is. I got really inspired since it came out, I saw it live in Chicago, but then since it’s been out, have you seen Hamilton yet?

Jenn DeWall:

No, I had tickets, but now.

Focus on What you Can Control

Alicia Jessip:

Ooh COVID – sorry to bring that up. Yeah. Well, of, one of the major characters in that, the nemesis, if you will, of the musical, I won’t give too much away for those that haven’t seen. It is Aaron Burr. And he’s got a line in there that talks about you are the one thing in life you can control. And so when I think about my habit for leadership success – and I also got this from a dear mentor of mine. And one of my first directors here in Denver was control what you can control,

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah, focus on what you can control. That’s fantastic advice, and there’s power in that, right? Because then we can see the way that we can add value. Alicia, thank you so much for joining us on The Leadership Habit. I have loved our conversation. Thanks for going there. Thanks for also just showing that we can have these conversations, and we can do them in a way that is productive. We can do them in a way that gives people compassion and like, I just really appreciate you being on the show today.

Alicia Jessip:

Thank you for having me, girlfriend. It’s been a pleasure, and I really look forward to continuing this journey with you.

Jenn DeWall:

Thank you so much for tuning in to this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. I really hope that you enjoyed our conversation with Alicia. It was something that will always stick with me, and I know that I learned and gained a lot of additional insight and what I can do as a leader to be more inclusive. And I hope you did too. If you want to connect with Alicia, feel free to connect with her on LinkedIn. You can find her name in our show notes. If you want to see the spelling. In addition, if you liked today’s episode, don’t forget to share it with your friends, share it with other leaders that are actively working to create more diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplaces. And of course, don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast, streaming service, and stay with us for this entire month as we cover the very important topic of diversity, equity and inclusion.

 

The post Episode 35: Creating an Inclusive Workplace with Inclusion and Diversity Manager, Alicia Jessip appeared first on Crestcom International.