The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie

Nico Perrino: What the Trump-Musk Alliance Means for Free Speech

Feb 5, 2025

Nico Perrino, executive vice president at FIRE and director of the documentary 'Mighty Ira,' joins the conversation to discuss free speech in today’s political landscape. He critiques the Biden administration's speech record and explores whether free speech may fare better under Trump. The chat delves into Elon Musk's controversial impact on censorship and the challenges posed by social media. Perrino also reflects on shifting generational attitudes toward free expression and the complexities of campus speech in the current climate.

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INSIGHT

Waning of Cancel Culture

Trump's influence and Musk's takeover of Twitter have weakened cancel culture.
This shift undercuts the primary tool of those seeking to silence opposing views.

ANECDOTE

Trump's Mixed Free Speech Record

Trump issued an executive order against government pressuring private companies.
He also made concerning statements about punishing flag burning and controlling media outlets like MSNBC.

INSIGHT

TikTok Ban Concerns

The TikTok ban sets a dangerous precedent, marking the first time the U.S. government banned a communication medium.
This action undermines the U.S.'s stance on a free and open internet.

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Today's guest is Nico Perrino, executive vice president at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE), director of the 2020 documentary Mighty Ira, which profiles the longtime head of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), and the author of a forthcoming book on the triumph of civil libertarians.

He's also the host of the popular podcast So to Speak, which takes an "uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech." Reason's Nick Gillespie talks with him about the Biden administration's rotten record on speech issues, his hopes and fears for President Donald Trump's second term, and why he worries that, when it comes to speech, Elon Musk is "suffering from the curse of power, which is censorship."

0:00- Introduction

1:29- Biden administration's record on free speech

8:22- Internal and external pressures on tech platforms to censor

11:00- Double standards on free speech

12:19- Will speech be freer under Trump than Biden?

18:49- The TikTok 'ban' & DeepSeek AI

28:23- Elon Musk: friend or foe to free speech? 31:10- Free speech culture

36:00- What was 'cancel culture'?

39:22- Institutional neutrality and campus speech post-Oct 7

46:43- Generational attitude shifts on free speech

Today's sponsor:

The Reason Speakeasy. The Reason Speakeasy is a monthly, unscripted conversation in New York City with outspoken defenders of free thinking and heterodoxy in an age of intellectual conformity and groupthink. It doubles as a live taping of The Reason Interview with Nick Gillespie podcast. The next one takes place on Thursday, February 27, and features Brian Doherty talking about his new book, Modern Libertarianism: A Brief History of Classical Liberalism in the United States. Go here to buy tickets and go here to sign up for Reason's NYC events newsletter.

Video Editor: Ian Keyser

The post Nico Perrino: What the Trump-Musk Alliance Means for Free Speech appeared first on Reason.com.