Agile Mentors Podcast from Mountain Goat Software

#151: What AI Is Really Delivering (and What It’s Not) with Evan Leybourn & Christopher Morales

Jun 18, 2025

Evan Leybourn, co-founder of the Business Agility Institute, and Christopher Morales, a digital strategist with two decades of experience, dive into the real impact of AI on businesses. They discuss how AI may not be the expected silver bullet for innovation, emphasizing that human challenges often hinder its success. The conversation explores the importance of organizational agility, the crucial role of company culture, and the necessity for new skills in an AI-driven workforce, reshaping how businesses achieve growth and sustainability.

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INSIGHT

Research on AI ROI Gaps

Many organizations don't see expected AI ROI despite technological promise.
This gap prompted research into why real business benefits lag behind AI potential.

INSIGHT

Team Gains Don’t Always Scale Business

Individual teams using AI see major productivity gains, sometimes 8x to 10x.
Yet overall business improvements generally remain minimal unless AI benefits flow organizationally.

INSIGHT

Augmentation Beats Automation with AI

AI used for workforce automation rarely yields strong ROI.
Generative AI is nondeterministic and suits augmentation better than automation.

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Is AI underdelivering? Or are we asking the wrong questions? This episode breaks down what actually leads to business ROI with AI (and no, it’s not more automation).

Overview

What if AI isn’t the silver bullet—yet—but the bottleneck is human, not technical?

In this episode, Brian Milner chats with Evan Leybourn and Christopher Morales of the Business Agility Institute about their latest research on how organizations are really using AI, what’s working (and what’s wildly overhyped), and why your success might hinge more on your culture than your code.

References and resources mentioned in the show:

Evan Leybourn
Christopher Morales
Business Agility Institute
From Constraints to Capabilities Report
Delphi Method
#93: The Rise of Human Skills and Agile Acumen with Evan Leybourn
#82: The Intersection of AI and Agile with Emilia Breton
#117: How AI and Automation Are Redefining Success for Developers with Lance Dacy
AI Practice Prompts For Scrum Masters
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This episode’s presenters are:

Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work.

Evan Leybourn is the co-founder of the Business Agility Institute and author of Directing the Agile Organization and #noprojects; a culture of continuous value. Evan champions the advancement of agile, innovative, and dynamic companies poised to succeed in fluctuating markets through rigorous research and advocacy.

Christopher Morales is a seasoned digital strategist and agile leader with over 20 years of experience guiding organizations like ESPN, IBM, and the Business Agility Institute. As founder of Electrick Media, he helps U.S. and European businesses harness AI to make smarter, more sustainable decisions in a rapidly changing world.