Episode 210 – Angels & Daimons, with Cristina Campo and M.C. Richards

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Apr 8, 2026

A lively dive into the imaginal: images as real, perspective as cosmic, and a plural world of intercommunicating images. They explore the daimonic as personified inner forces and practical rituals for talking to fear. Fairy tales are read as unions of beauty and horror, and practice is framed as ongoing wrestling that shapes personhood and possibility.

01:33:25

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INSIGHT

Imaginal As Real Modality

The imaginal differs from the imaginary because images can be real in themselves, not merely subjective fantasies.
J.F. Martel and Phil Ford invoke Bergson: self-existing images form reality, so fiction can reveal truth about the world.

insights

INSIGHT

World Is Perspective Not Mere Appearance

Radical perspectivism treats each perspective as an expression of the thing itself rather than a mere view onto a hidden thing.
J.F. Martel uses Borges and Bergson to argue appearances are the things, not distortions of an inaccessible reality.

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ANECDOTE

Tarot Draw Preceded Warts Falling Off

Phil Ford recounts a teenage episode where his warts fell off after drawing the Death tarot card.
He physically removed the warts in the bathtub and showed his brother, framing it as a small 'death' event.

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Why use the word 'imaginal' not 'imaginary'

06:20 • 6min

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Imaginal perspectivism and Bergsonian images

11:50 • 2min

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From literary to cosmic perspectivism

14:01 • 5min

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Pluralism, Indra's net, and things-as-images

18:50 • 6min

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Essay-swap method and emergent insights

24:44 • 8min

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Why MC Richards' 'Daimonic' matters

32:33 • 8min

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Daimonic as dramatized imaginal forces

40:20 • 6min

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Practical personification: talking to fear

46:07 • 6min

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Perfection as being perfectly oneself

52:14 • 4min

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Campo on fairy tales: beauty and horror

56:27 • 6min

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Fairy tales, trust, and the economy of events

01:02:06 • 5min

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Wrestling, practice, and the no-gaining mind

01:07:36 • 6min

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Achieve the impossible by the impossible

01:13:28 • 8min

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Wrestling as the condition of existence

01:21:48 • 3min

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Centering, resistance, and saying yes to a no

Wrestling with the Daimonic

M.C. Richards

M. C. Richards' essay 'Wrestling with the Daimonic' examines how individuals encounter powerful inner forces—what she terms the daimonic—and the ethical, spiritual, and psychological work of engaging them. Drawing on Christian imagery (e. g. , Jacob wrestling with the angel) and her own anthroposophical leanings, Richards argues for a posture of wrestling and acceptance rather than quick moralization. The essay treats personified emotions as autonomous presences that must be communed with or integrated, not simply repressed or justified. Richards links this practice to the idea of 'centering' from her earlier work, while acknowledging the necessity at times of resistance and saying 'yes to a no. ' The piece blends memoir, spiritual reflection, and practical guidance for living with complexity and ambiguity. It has been influential in discussions of imagination, creativity, and spiritual psychology.

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On Fairy Tales

Cristina Campo

Cristina Campo's 'On Fairy Tales' is an essayistic meditation that treats fairy tales as a cultural form revealing the interplay of beauty and horror at the heart of reality. Writing from a Catholic and poetic sensibility, Campo argues that fairy tales disclose a moral imagination that resists fixed, codified precepts and instead requires decisive, momentary gestures guided by trust. She frames the fairy tale hero's path as a lunatic quest sustained by trust in an economy larger than momentary events, emphasizing contingency, grace, and the possibility that apparent evil can serve unforeseen goods. Campo connects fairy tales to scripture and sacramental ways of seeing, insisting that their lessons are procedural, situational, and oriented toward victory over the law of necessity. The essay has been influential among readers interested in the imaginal, myth, and the moral complexity of narrative.

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• Mentioned in 2 episodes

Centering

Zen Flesh, Zen Bones

Paul Reps

Paul Reps' contribution titled 'Centering' appears in his anthology 'Zen Flesh, Zen Bones' and presents a free, poetic rendering inspired by the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra's techniques. The piece helped introduce Western readers to these tantric practices in an accessible, nonliteral form. Reps studied with Kashmiri teachers and adapted material into succinct, practice-oriented passages. His rendering influenced later popular books that drew on the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra's list of techniques. The work occupies a notable place in mid-20th-century Western receptions of Eastern spiritual texts.

#5889

• Mentioned in 9 episodes

The Storyteller

Tales of Life and Music

Dave Grohl

The Storyteller is an autobiography by Dave Grohl that chronicles his life and music career. The book includes stories from his childhood in suburban Virginia, his early days in the punk band Scream, his time as the drummer for Nirvana, and the formation and success of Foo Fighters. Grohl shares candid anecdotes about his experiences, including meeting Kurt Cobain, the rise and fall of Nirvana, and his personal struggles and triumphs. The memoir is praised for its warm, funny, and natural storytelling, highlighting Grohl's love for family, music, and his resilience in the face of adversity.

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• Mentioned in 2 episodes

The Little Book of Demons

Ramsey Dukes

#4796

• Mentioned in 11 episodes

Matter and memory

Henri Bergson

Henri Bergson's 'Matter and Memory' delves into the relationship between consciousness, memory, and the material world. Bergson challenges traditional views of memory as a static storehouse of information, proposing instead a dynamic, evolving memory that shapes our perception of reality. He explores the role of perception in action, arguing that we perceive only what we can act upon. The book's central theme is the interplay between the material and the mental, emphasizing the active role of consciousness in shaping our experience. Bergson's ideas have influenced various fields, including psychology, neuroscience, and philosophy.

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• Mentioned in 2 episodes

The two sources of morality and religion

Henri Bergson

#1374

• Mentioned in 31 episodes

Othello

The Tragedy of Othello, the Moor of Venice

William Shakespeare

Written around 1603, 'Othello' is a tragedy that delves into the destructive nature of jealousy and the vulnerability of trust in relationships. The play follows Othello, a Moorish general in the Venetian army, whose marriage to Desdemona is manipulated by his ensign Iago, leading to tragic consequences. Iago exploits Othello’s insecurities about his race and marriage, sowing seeds of doubt that ultimately result in the death of Desdemona and Othello's own downfall. The play is renowned for its exploration of racial and cultural issues, as well as its nuanced portrayal of human nature and the complexities of love and trust.

In this episode, JF and Phil bring together two visionary essays on the daimonic and the imaginal: Cristina Campo’s “On Fairy Tales” and M.C. Richards’s “Wrestling with the Daimonic.” What emerges is a conversation about imagination, personhood, and a world shot through with meaning. Notably, this episode opens with a discussion of what your hosts mean by "imaginal."

Phil’s reading of Richards’s essay can be found on our Patreon page. Thanks to Wesleyan University Press for permission to share this with our listeners.

Go to Pierre-Yves Martel's Bandcamp page to preorder his marvellous new album, Weird Studies Volume 3.

Click here to sign up for JF's seminar on Henri Bergson, happening on the Mutations learning platform on Saturday, April 11, 2026.

Click here for details on JF's upcoming Weirdosphere course, "What is Philosophy?".

Music in this Episode

"Scavenger," from ⁠Weird Studies Vol. 3⁠

"Domes and Spires," from ⁠Weird Studies Vol. 2⁠

References

M. C. Richards, American artist and philosopher

Cristina Campo, Italian poet and essayist

M. C. Richards, “Wrestling with the Daimonic”

Cristina Campo, “On Fairy Tales”

Henri Bergson, Matter and Memory