Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

chevron_right

The engineering mindset | Will Larson (Carta, Stripe, Uber, Calm, Digg)

whatshot 522 snips

Jan 7, 2024

Guest

Will Larson

Will Larson, CTO at Carta and former leader at Calm, Stripe, Uber, and Digg, shares his vast experience in engineering management. He emphasizes treating engineers as peers to boost productivity and discusses the importance of systems thinking in recruitment. Larson offers practical advice for product managers on fostering collaboration with engineers. He also touches on the impact of writing on his career and the balance between writing and a demanding job while exploring how to authentically define company values through adversity.

01:16:53

forum

Ask episode

web_stories

AI Snips

view_agenda

Chapters

menu_book

Books

auto_awesome

Transcript

info_circle

Episode notes

volunteer_activism

ADVICE

Document Your Strategy

Write down your strategies, even if they're not perfect, to facilitate improvement and debugging.
Unwritten strategies hinder evaluation and alignment.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

Constrained Strategies

Uber's strategy of using only their own data centers enabled rapid expansion into China.
Stripe's Ruby monolith strategy focused engineers on building features, not tools.

volunteer_activism

ADVICE

Write for Yourself

Write what energizes you, not just what you think others want.
The biggest risk to writers is quitting due to burnout.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Navigating Modern Engineering Dynamics

03:47 • 13min

chevron_right

Crafting Effective Engineering Strategies

16:23 • 10min

chevron_right

The Power of Authentic Writing

26:49 • 3min

chevron_right

The Importance of Passion in Content Creation

29:58 • 3min

chevron_right

Navigating the Landscape of Content Creation

33:26 • 22min

chevron_right

Defining Company Values and Lessons from Adversity

55:43 • 15min

chevron_right

Navigating Engineering Leadership

01:11:07 • 6min

chevron_right

#18842

• Mentioned in 3 episodes

The Value Flywheel Effect

Power the Future and Accelerate Your Organization to the Modern Cloud

Mark McCann

David Anderson

Michael O'Reilly

The Value Flywheel Effect helps organizations navigate the rapidly changing technology landscape by combining strategic thinking, team focus, and reduced time to value. It utilizes Wardley Mapping to enhance situational awareness and drive long-term success, especially in migrating to cloud and serverless environments.

#32805

• Mentioned in 2 episodes

Technology Strategy Patterns

Evan Bottcher

No specific information available about this book. Evan Bottcher is associated with discussions on platform engineering and team topologies.

#7112

• Mentioned in 7 episodes

Staff Engineer

Tanya Reilly

Will Larson

This book explores the role of a Staff Engineer, providing insights into leadership, career growth, and strategic thinking without following the management track. It includes interviews with experienced Staff Engineers and offers practical advice on achieving and succeeding in this role.

#380

• Mentioned in 75 episodes

This book introduces readers to systems thinking, a critical skill for 21st-century life. It explains how to understand and interact with complex systems, highlighting the importance of internal system structures and feedback loops. The book is divided into sections on system structures and behavior, the relationship between systems and humans, and strategies for creating change within systems. It aims to help readers develop a deeper understanding of systems to address global issues such as climate change, poverty, and social inequalities.

#2130

• Mentioned in 21 episodes

How Big Things Get Done

Dan Gardner

Bent Flyvbjerg

#4688

• Mentioned in 10 episodes

An Elegant Puzzle

Systems of Engineering Management

Will Larson

An Elegant Puzzle is a comprehensive guide to engineering management, particularly in high-growth environments. The book, written by Will Larson, draws on his extensive experience at companies like Digg, Uber, and Stripe. It addresses specific challenges such as managing technical debt, handling migrations, and developing succession planning. Larson's approach emphasizes systems thinking, providing actionable templates and strategies for building healthy and productive engineering teams. The book is valuable not only for engineering managers but also for product managers and engineers working in similar environments.

#6992

• Mentioned in 7 episodes

Don't Think of an Elephant

George Lakoff

In this updated and expanded edition, George Lakoff delves deeper into how framing works, how it has evolved over the past decade, and how to speak to people with both progressive and conservative worldviews. Lakoff urges progressives to present a clear moral vision that aligns with traditional American values, emphasizing the importance of proactive, positive ideas that uphold citizens' well-being and freedom.

#5194

• Mentioned in 9 episodes

The Crux

Richard Rumelt

#746

• Mentioned in 45 episodes

The Phoenix project

Lambeth London Borough Council

In this novel, Gene Kim, Kevin Behr, and George Spafford tell the story of Bill, an IT manager at Parts Unlimited, who is tasked with turning around the company's failing IT department. The book delves into the challenges of IT management, the importance of DevOps practices, and how these practices can lead to significant improvements in efficiency, reliability, and customer satisfaction.

#885

• Mentioned in 41 episodes

Accelerate

The Science of Lean Software and DevOps: Building and Scaling High Performing Technology Organizations

Nicole Forsgren

Gene Kim

Jez Humble

Accelerate presents the findings from four years of research, including data from the State of DevOps reports, to identify key capabilities that drive high performance in software delivery. The book focuses on 24 practices grouped into five categories: Continuous Delivery, Architecture, Product and Process, Lean Management and Monitoring, and Cultural. It provides practical guidance on how to apply these practices to improve team performance, reduce deployment pain, and enhance overall business value. The book is ideal for management at every level involved in digital transformation and software development.

#9725

• Mentioned in 5 episodes

The Engineering Executive's Primer

Impactful Technical Leadership

Will Larson

#551

• Mentioned in 57 episodes

Good Strategy/Bad Strategy

The Difference and Why It Matters

Richard Rumelt

In *Good Strategy/Bad Strategy*, Richard Rumelt clarifies the distinction between effective and ineffective strategies. He argues that a good strategy is a specific and coherent response to overcoming obstacles, harnessing power where it will have the greatest effect. Rumelt debunks elements of 'bad strategy' such as equating goals, motivational slogans, and financial targets with actual strategy. He introduces the 'kernel' of strategy, which includes a diagnosis of the challenge, a guiding policy, and coherent action. The book uses diverse examples from business, nonprofit, and military contexts to illustrate these concepts and emphasizes the importance of analytical rigor and focused effort in strategy development.

#243

• Mentioned in 99 episodes

Silent Spring

Rachel Carson

Published in 1962, 'Silent Spring' by Rachel Carson is a seminal work in environmental science. The book documents the harmful effects of DDT and other pesticides on the environment, including their impact on bird populations, other wildlife, and human health. Carson argued that these substances should be called 'biocides' due to their broad impact on ecosystems. The book was serialized in 'The New Yorker' before its full publication and generated significant public and scientific debate. It led to a reversal in U.S. pesticide policy, the banning of DDT for agricultural use in 1972, and the establishment of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in 1970. Carson's work challenged the prevailing attitudes towards scientific progress and human control over nature, advocating for responsible and careful use of pesticides and highlighting the need for environmental stewardship.

Will Larson is Chief Technology Officer at Carta. Prior to joining Carta, he was the CTO at Calm and held engineering leadership roles at Stripe, Uber, and Digg. He is the author of two foundational engineering career books, An Elegant Puzzle and Staff Engineer, and The Engineering Executive’s Primer, which will be released in February. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Systems thinking: what it is and how to apply it

• Advice for product managers on fostering productive relationships with engineering managers

• Why companies should treat engineers like adults

• How to best measure developer productivity

• Writing and its impact on his career

• How to balance writing with a demanding job

• How to develop your company values

—

Brought to you by DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity | OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-engineering-mindset-will-larson

—

Where to find Will Larson:

• X: https://twitter.com/Lethain

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-larson-a44b543/

• Website: https://lethain.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Will’s background

(04:12) Changes in the field of engineering

(06:27) We need to stop treating engineers like children

(08:32) Systems thinking

(13:23) Implementing systems thinking in hiring

(16:32) Engineering strategy

(20:21) Examples of engineering strategies

(25:08) How to get good at strategy

(26:48) The importance of writing about things that excite you

(32:40) The biggest risk to content creation is quitting too soon

(35:24) How to make time for writing

(37:41) Tips for aspiring writers

(41:18) Building productive relationships between product managers and engineers

(43:45) Giving the same performance rating to EMs and PMs

(48:24) Measuring engineering productivity

(55:53) Defining company values

(01:02:10) Failure corner: the Digg rewrite

(01:11:05) Will’s upcoming book, The Engineering Executive’s Primer

(01:12:04) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• The end of the “free money” era: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/11/techscape-zirp-tech-boom

• Work on what matters: https://lethain.com/work-on-what-matters/

• Sheryl Sandberg to Harvard Biz Grads: “Find a Rocket Ship”: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/05/24/sheryl-sandberg-to-harvard-biz-grads-find-a-rocket-ship/?sh=708c9a93b37a

• What Is Systems Thinking?: https://www.snhu.edu/about-us/newsroom/business/what-is-systems-thinking

• Introduction to systems thinking: https://lethain.com/systems-thinking/

• Thinking in Systems: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/1603580557

• Silent Spring: https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Spring-Rachel-Carson/dp/0618249060

• Writing an engineering strategy: https://lethain.com/eng-strategies/

• Carta: https://carta.com/

• Eric Vogl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericvogl/

• Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The difference and why it matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-difference-matters/dp/1781256179

• The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240/

• How Big Things Get Done: The Surprising Factors That Determine the Fate of Every Project, from Home Renovations to Space Exploration and Everything in Between: https://www.amazon.com/How-Big-Things-Get-Done/dp/0593239512/

• Technology Strategy Patterns: Architecture as Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/Technology-Strategy-Patterns-Architecture/dp/1492040878/

• The Value Flywheel Effect: Power the Future and Accelerate Your Organization to the Modern Cloud: https://www.amazon.com/Value-Flywheel-Effect-Accelerate-Organization/dp/1950508579

• The Phoenix Project: A Novel about IT, DevOps, and Helping Your Business Win: https://www.amazon.com/Phoenix-Project-DevOps-Helping-Business/dp/1942788290

• The Engineering Executive’s Primer: Impactful Technical Leadership: https://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Executives-Primer-Impactful-Leadership/dp/1098149483

• An Elegant Puzzle: Systems of Engineering Management: https://press.stripe.com/an-elegant-puzzle

• Staff Engineer: Leadership beyond the management track: https://www.amazon.com/Staff-Engineer-Leadership-beyond-management-ebook/dp/B08RMSHYGG

• Gergely Orosz’s newsletter: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/author/gergely/

• Leaving big tech to build the #1 technology newsletter | Gergely Orosz (The Pragmatic Engineer): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/leaving-big-tech-to-build-the-1-technology-newsletter-gergely-orosz-the-pragmatic-engineer/

• The art of product management | Shreyas Doshi (Stripe, Twitter, Google, Yahoo): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/the-art-of-product-management-shreyas-doshi-stripe-twitter-google-yahoo/

• Henry Ward on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heward/

• Vrushali Paunikar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vrushali-paunikar/

• Accelerate: The Science of Lean Software and DevOps: Building and Scaling High Performing Technology Organizations: https://www.amazon.com/Accelerate-Software-Performing-Technology-Organizations/dp/1942788339

• How to measure and improve developer productivity | Nicole Forsgren (Microsoft Research, GitHub, Google): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-measure-and-improve-developer-productivity-nicole-forsgren-microsoft-research-github-goo/

• DORA: https://dora.dev/

• Setting engineering org values: https://lethain.com/setting-engineering-org-values/

• Digg: https://digg.com/

• Kevin Rose on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinrose/

• Digg’s v4 launch: an optimism born of necessity: https://lethain.com/digg-v4/

• Dash Gopinath on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dashgopinath/

• Rich Schumacher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richschumacher/

• The ALL NEW Don’t Think of an Elephant!: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate: https://www.amazon.com/ALL-NEW-Dont-Think-Elephant-ebook/dp/B00NP9LHFA

• Top Chef on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/top-chef/5172289448907967112

• Hard to work with: https://lethain.com/hard-to-work-with/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Home Top podcasts Popular guests Top books