What Black Americans and Ukrainians can tell each other

What do Ukrainians and Black Americans share in their historical and cultural experiences? Can we draw comparisons between serfdom and slavery, or find parallels in the colonial traumas and the struggle for human dignity? Furthermore, what role do culture, identity, and language play in overcoming these legacies? In this episode of the Explaining Ukraine podcast, we share a recording of a vital discussion held at PEN Ukraine in Kyiv in October 2025. This conversation explores collective memory, the universal aspiration for freedom, and the growing solidarity between communities that have endured systemic oppression. *** Our Speakers are: - Terrell Jermaine Starr – Independent American journalist and host of Black Diplomats, a documentary news show covering civilian life in Ukraine. Over his 16-year career, he has reported extensively on the U.S. military, nuclear policy, and the Black Lives Matter movement. - Christopher Atwood – Human rights and communications expert, Head of the Ukraïner International, which an international branch of Ukrainer, a popular Ukrainian media. Host: Volodymyr Yermolenko, a Ukrainian philosopher, president of PEN Ukraine and the editor-in-chief of UkraineWorld. *** Listen on various platforms: https://li.sten.to/explaining-ukraine UkraineWorld: https://ukraineworld.org/en *** SUPPORT: You can support our work on https://www.patreon.com/c/ukraineworld Your help is crucial, as we rely heavily on crowdfunding. You can also contribute to our volunteer missions to frontline areas in Ukraine, where we deliver aid to both soldiers and civilians. Donations are welcome via PayPal at: ukraine.resisting@gmail.com. *** CONTENTS: 00:00:00 Guests: American journalist Terrell Jermaine Starr and American civic activist Christopher Atwood. Discussion at PEN Ukraine, October, 2025. 00:04:03 What can Black Americans and Ukrainians tell each other to make their shared struggles better understood by the world? 00:07:34 What are the three profound commonalities between the 2014 Maidan Revolution and the Black Lives Matter movement? 00:18:54 How do the legacies of Frederick Douglass and Taras Shevchenko reveal the universal trauma of being "born into unfreedom"? 00:22:56 How did the exploitative "sharecropping" system in the American South mirror the traps faced by Ukrainian peasants? 00:28:41 What is the historical link between the "slave catchers" of the 19th century and the architecture of modern American policing? 00:30:30 In what ways is the current political divide in America a shadow of the Civil War? 00:32:38 Why does the American democracy only have a "30-year jump" on Ukraine’s independence? 00:33:48 In what ways is "whiteness" weaponized as a tool of convenience by Western powers? 00:35:07 What is the difference between the "colonialism of racism" and the "colonialism of assimilation"? 00:36:18 How does Frantz Fanon’s Black Skin, White Masks explain language as a primary tool of domination? 00:37:15 Why does the Western intellectuals struggle to reject colonialism in practice? 00:42:48 Why is it a dangerous intellectual shortcut to blame systemic issues on "one bad man" like Trump or Putin? 00:53:32 What does the history of the Brooklyn Bridge reveal about the racial hierarchies? 00:57:17 How can Black Americans and Ukrainians build solidarity when they face the same systems of oppression but have "colonizers who look different"? 01:05:40 What are the "multiple layers of whiteness"? 01:12:50 How does Edward Said’s Orientalism help explain why Western scholars often treat Ukrainians as "objects" of study rather than "subjects"? 01:24:10 How did Western academics miss the "seething rage" that signaled Ukrainians would never welcome invaders as liberators? 01:26:56 Why does the American "dominant class" believe democracy is a finished project? 01:33:33 Can a government truly understand the cultural dynamics of another country if it refuses to reflect on the racial dynamics of its own?