S2E7 - Retail Transformers - Bryan Dove

What is the future of ecommerce? How will dropship, marketplaces, & fulfillment evolve to serve an ever-demanding consumer? These are complex issues so we invited our latest Retail Transformer to help us cut through the clutter – meet Bryan Dove, CEO of CommerceHub. 

Bryan talks us through how DTC brands and retailers alike can tackle these challenges while delivering the conveniences consumers demand – from communicating delivery schedules to fulfilling orders most efficiently, and so much more! Get your notepad ready to take notes because you’re going to learn why Bryan Dove is more than meets the eye in this nonstop stream of insightful ecommerce nuggets! 

Introducing our new segment, Retail Razor Data Blades, with special consumer insights from Georgina Nelson, CEO of TruRating ,learned from their 100,000’s of point-of-sale customer survey polls. In this episode we learn how inflation doesn't impact everyone the same way!

News alert #1: The Retail Razor Show has been nominated for The Retail Voice Award at the Vendors in Partnership Award ceremony during the NRF Big Show 2023 in January in New York City!

News alert #2! We’ve moved up to #18 on the Feedspot Top 60 Best Retail podcasts list - please consider giving us a 5-star review in Apple Podcasts! With your help, we’ll move our way up the Top 20! Leave us a review & be mentioned in future episodes! https://blog.feedspot.com/retail_podcasts/

Meet your hosts, helping you cut through the clutter in retail & retail tech:

Ricardo Belmar, a RETHINK Retail Top Retail Influencer for 2022 & 2021, RIS News Top Movers and Shakers in Retail for 2021, a Top 12 ecommerce influencer, advisory council member at George Mason University’s Center for Retail Transformation, and director partner marketing advisor for retail & consumer goods at Microsoft.

Casey Golden, CEO of Luxlock. Obsessed with the customer relationship between the brand and the consumer. After a career on the fashion and supply chain technology side of the business, now slaying franken-stacks and building retail tech!

Includes music provided by imunobeats.com, featuring E-Motive, Overclocked, and Tech Lore, from the album Beat Hype, written by Hestron Mimms, published by Imuno. 

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Host → Ricardo Belmar,

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TRANSCRIPT

S2E7 Bryan Dove

[00:00:00] Pre-Intro

[00:00:00] Casey Golden: Ricardo, I've got one word for you to describe this week's show, marketplaces drop ship fulfillment data. Okay. It's a whole lot of one words. Drop ship counts as a word, right? All right. Let's just say this is all about the future of e-com.

[00:00:23] Ricardo Belmar: Y Yeah. Okay. So I'm not quite sure how many words that counts for, but I'm, I'm gonna go ahead and stick with e-commerce as the theme for this week, and following up our amazing episode with Polly Wong focused on direct to consumer. And we've got another amazing retail transformer on today's show to dive into the future of e-commerce.

[00:00:41] Casey Golden: And this is really exciting. Like every e-commerce junkie out there listening or watching should be taking out their notepad right now and be ready for some golden nuggets and tips. Um, no pun intended, These strategies that will come at you faster than you can say, where's my package? 

[00:01:02] Ricardo Belmar: That is so true actually. Actually, this is getting to be a habit, isn't it? Needing a notepad just to listen to the podcast. So should we 

[00:01:09] Casey Golden: know if it's like good or bad. 

[00:01:10] Ricardo Belmar: know, right. ,maybe we should just get this episode started or, or should we just make everybody wait a little more and keep listening to us talking about it?

[00:01:19] Casey Golden: You're too cruel and obsessed with long introductions. Let's say we just jump in to the intro music already.

[00:01:28] Show Intro

[00:01:28] Ricardo Belmar: Hello, and welcome to season two, episode seven of the Retail Razor Show. I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar.

[00:01:55] Casey Golden: And I'm your co-host, Casey Golden. Welcome, retail Razor Show listeners to retail's favorite podcast for product junkies, commerce technologist, and everyone else in retail and retail tech alike.

[00:02:07] Ricardo Belmar: We're back with another incredible retail transformer as our guest this week, and if you're just coming from episode five, our special D T C retail transformer episode with Polly Wong, then you're really going to do the dance of joy for this one.

[00:02:21] Casey Golden: Yes. And as a founder, I am so exciting. We're diving into the future of e-commerce, looking at marketplaces, drop shipping, fulfillment challenges, inventory challenges, and much, much more for the whole Commerce family in this episode.

[00:02:37] Ricardo Belmar: Oh yeah, faithful Retail Razor Show listeners will learn exactly why Bryan Dove, CEO of Commerce Hub is more than meets the eye.

[00:02:45] Casey Golden: I have to say that I love that we finally got to deep dive into the murky waters of e-commerce to really think about and talk through what brands need to get out of their e-commerce sites going forward and how they should grow, what the right tools are. What they need to be building and how they should handle their supplier relationships. There's just so much more to go into, like fulfillment strategies, managing inventory, and much of this will relate back to what Polly talked about, customer retention.

[00:03:18] Ricardo Belmar: that, that's right. This discussion with Bryan is a nice bookend to our chat with Polly. I, I can't say enough that if you're a DTC founder or you're responsible for your brand's e-commerce and are looking at drop shipping or marketplace expansion to grow the business, wow are you here at the right time. This discussion combined with Polly's could just about be your best practices guide to success.

[00:03:40] Retail Razor Data Blades - "Inflation doesn't impact everyone the same way"

[00:03:40] Ricardo Belmar: But first it's time for the newest segment of our show, Retail Razor Data Blades, where we talk real world numbers and slice through measurable consumer insights. It's a bit like, show me the math so I understand where this data is coming from, and bringing us that slicing and dicing of data is Georgina Nelson, c e o of true rating.

[00:03:58] Georgina will share with us some key data points and offer a bit of insight into what's behind those numbers based on their extensive customer insight data at the point of sale

[00:04:06] Casey Golden: welcome, Georgina.

[00:04:12] Georgina Nelson: Thank you so much for having me. 

[00:04:14] Casey Golden: So today's retail razor data blades segment is "Inflation doesn't impact everyone the same way". Georgina, tell us more.

[00:04:22] Georgina Nelson: So yeah. We've done some consumer insight research over the past few months to really try and understand how all these macroeconomic trends are influencing consumers in their shopping behaviors and habits. We sampled over 170,000 consumers across our key markets in the UK, North America, and Australia. And I think in terms of the nugget I wanted to shout about today was just really, I guess not surprisingly, the number of people who are noticing the impact on rising, rising cost of living. And that was a whopping 81% of consumers registered that change. But where I think it gets interesting and you, as you say, Ricardo, slicing and dicing that data is looking at the differences across demographics and age range. So when we looked at seniors, we found that 89% had been noticing the the rising cost of living. But take that, flip that up and look at those under 30 and only 75%. And so when you actually think about how the cost of living is impacting different demographics, I think it's, really focused on the rising cost of food, food bills, keeping your house warm and yeah.

[00:05:39] And fuel, et cetera. And so you know, many of us, including me, did a, did a few stints living with mom and dad in my twenties. And so, you know, those household bills aren't, aren't impacting us as, as, as much. And and I think that's, you know, that's really the key lesson is that it's not, not a generic homogenous sweep all impact.

[00:06:03] We have to really look at slicing and dicing that data and getting very granular insights about how, how these trends are impacting different groups.

[00:06:11] Ricardo Belmar: So Georgina, we, we so often hear retailers being tempted to chase the newest and youngest demographic because they believe that's where the staying power is and the greater lifetime customer value might come from. But from the data you're, you're telling us, it, it seems to tell us really that retailers need to both tailor their messaging and their targeting unique to uniquely speak to each of those demographics to get the best conversion just based on how current economic conditions are impacting them differently.

[00:06:39] So how would you say retailers should react to this data?

[00:06:42] Georgina Nelson: Yeah, I, I very much agree. I think it needs to be a nuanced approach and you know, primarily to survive these times, retailers need to really invest in understanding their consumers. And, you know, as we saw through the pandemic, how. Quickly, these consumers are changing and keeping abreast of that. And so that means, you know, nuanced and targeted messaging to different consumer groups. But also I think it's down to a store level. You know, taking a very granular approach each, each store, as I always say, is a snowflake, and they have their own client. You know, their own customer mix. And so being able to get customer insight down to that store and granular level and really understanding that, that mix up. It helps you have targeted and nuanced strategies depending on that store. So, you know, if you do need to make a price increase, it might be an idea to, you know, look across the whole of North America, for example, and understand your, your base and, and share that distribution across different states and vary that price increase depending on the customer base, for example. So I definitely think that those retailers who are on the front foot with understanding their customers and being able to react really quickly to sentiment and changes in behavior are those who are gonna have the competitive advantage as we muddle through these times.

[00:08:07] Casey Golden: It's great. Georgina, thank you so much for joining us today on Retail Razor's Data Blades,

[00:08:13] Georgina Nelson: Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

[00:08:15]

[00:08:20] Interview with Bryan Dove

[00:08:20] Casey Golden: Things have changed now that we've sliced some data. Let's get back to the evolution of e-commerce with Bryan Dove.

[00:08:27] Ricardo Belmar: And we are here with our special guest and latest retail transformer to visit the show. Bryan Dove, CEO of Commerce Hub, a leading provider of cloud-based e-commerce, fulfillment and marketing solutions for large retailers, marketplaces, consumer brands, and their suppliers. Welcome Bryan.

[00:08:48] Bryan Dove: Thanks for having me.

[00:08:49] Casey Golden: Really glad to have you join us, Bryan. Since our last call, we've both been really excited to have this conversation on marketplaces and fulfillment. Kind of touch on some drop shipping and what's been really what the future holds for all these areas for retailing in today's environment and our tomorrow's.

[00:09:06] Bryan Dove: That's great. I'm, I'm excited to share, share what share what we've learned along the way.

[00:09:10] Casey Golden: So just to get started, Bryan, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, Commerce Hub and how Commerce Hub works with retailers?

[00:09:18] Bryan Dove: Sure. to start with Commerce Hub, the Commerce hub's got 25 years of history. We've been working with the largest big box retailers that are out there and, and really from the late nineties helping them enable and, and expand their e-commerce selection. So our customer lists. Our are the largest retailers you can imagine, folks like Walmart and Costco and, and Macy's and Nordstrom and Best Buy and so on.

[00:09:38] We have a, we have a, a pretty, pretty meaningful number of customers in the large, large, big box retailer enterprise space. And what we've focused on since the beginning is helping them expand the number of items that they sell on their website. Where they have not had to have not had to purchase those items.

[00:09:54] So classically referred to as Drop Ship. I think in modern terms there's drop ship, there's marketplace, and there's probably a blend of some other terms to, to describe that. We really just think about it as the unowned inventory. And for most of our, for most of our retailers, it powers it powers a significant portion and sometimes the majority of their overall overall online sales and almost always the majority of their overall online selection.

[00:10:15] And for my personal background, I've been at Commerce Hub. Coming up on two years, so a little bit more than a year and a half. And then prior to this, I ran a travel business based outta Europe that helped almost a billion travelers a year worldwide. We were number one in 140, 150 countries. And then prior to that, I spent some time at at Amazon Web Services, Microsoft, and and some other tech companies along the way.

[00:10:33] Casey Golden: Amazing. So just to add a little bit of context for our listeners, the Commerce Suite, what does that mean to a brand or a retailer?

[00:10:42] Bryan Dove: So we at Shop Talk this year, So back in March of 22, we, we launched what we branded as the Commerce Suite. And this was really our, our primary evolution of the history of the business. So historically we've been, we had been really narrowly focused on. Enabling drop ship and has been been quite successful.

[00:10:59] It's a critical piece of infrastructure for all of these retailers that we work with. But as we were talking to our customers, what we heard is we heard lots of needs for expansion for flexibility, various customers experimenting with item, with ideas like marketplace. Now, if you ask five customers what they mean by a marketplace, you'll get 10 to 15 different answers 

[00:11:18] Casey Golden: omnichannel.

[00:11:19] Bryan Dove: Yeah. And, and so, so when, when you, when you really listen for the essence and, and push the labels to the side, what they were really looking for is flexibility in the way that they engaged with suppliers, flexibility in the way that they set up items and got them published to the site. Flexibility in striking different economic arrangements with different brands that they worked with.

[00:11:38] And so our, our release of the commerce suite was really the first major step in that direction to go from a pure drop ship platform. To enabling that flexibility that allows, that allows our retailers and the brands and suppliers that work with them to, to flex between a drop ship model, a marketplace model, and be able to look at those differences really as, as almost like, like light switches that you could turn some on, you could turn some off and, and really enable that to work as well as there's some there's some lightweight catalog management and items set up automation that's in there as well, really to help enable brands and suppliers to take more control over their listings and and optionally over, over prices as they publish onto these different retailer platforms. And so that's really what's encompassed in our commerce suite that we launched earlier this year.

[00:12:20] Ricardo Belmar: That's Great so really all kind of broadly encompassing all the major functions that any, any eCommerce brands really, really searching for. Right? Just in into one platform.

[00:12:29] Bryan Dove: Y Yeah. I mean, if you, if you think all the way, you know, at a, at a million foot elevation, broadly speaking, retailers are trying to carry two buckets of goods. Things that they have. That they have purchased. So whether it's sitting in their warehouse to only be sold online or they purchased to bring into their stores, and then the rest of their selection are items that are still owned by either the brand or the distributor or the supplier that they still wanna list, but they haven't actually taken inventory possession for.

[00:12:54] And when I, when I look at what our Commerce Suite enables, it really becomes that, that single platform to power all of your needs for your unowned inventory, we have a, we have a network not only of, of dozens to hundreds of retailers of the, of the largest retailers, but tens of thousands of brands and suppliers that are connected.

[00:13:11] And so over the last, over the last 25 years, we've really built this, this network that encompasses virtually everybody of scale across the the North American eCommerce system.

[00:13:21] Ricardo Belmar: Well, that's pretty impressive. so one of the things I think we should talk about along those lines too is around fulfillment strategies. So for any of the retailers, you're talking about in all these scenarios with this mix of owned inventory and other inventory that they have, how that retailer can create a really exceptional delivery experience , and overall fulfillment experience for their customer using, using your platform, how do you help retailers kind of unify their, that online marketplace or, and or drop ship capabilities that they're doing with their overall customer experience?

[00:13:52] Bryan Dove: Sure. So, so I mentioned, I started, it's called a year and a half ago or so, and, and part of, part of starting, one of the great things about being in the, in the B2B space, in the enterprise space is it's, you can go talk to your customers. And, you know, I, I made a point to go out and talk to them when I started.

[00:14:07] I, I still talk to a number of customers virtually every week now. But as I was just talking to 'em, I would just ask what problems are they thinking about? What are they worried about immediately? What are they worried about over the next couple years? And we really started to see this trend where historically organizations would really separate the fulfillment inside of their supply chain.

[00:14:26] So thinking about everything from warehouses to fulfillment contracts to logistics, separate from the merchandising. Pricing and online sales, and it only really, almost really operated as, as almost two different business units inside the organization. And what we saw as an emerging trend is, I, I heard from more and more of these retailer executives and, and the executives at brands talking about intersecting the two, How could they use their knowledge on merchandising to better optimizer fulfillment and how could they use their, their expertise in fulfillment to better optimize their merchandising?

[00:14:58] If you want just a simple example, you might price an. Or you might price shipping differently if you know it's sitting in a warehouse that's you know, that's a hundred miles from you. So if the warehouse is in the central Florida and you're shipping it to Orlando, I might offer you next day service for free because I actually know the net cost of that is gonna be cheap and I'm gonna delight my customer by saying, Hey, you've gotten a free upgrade to overnight, versus that item is sitting in a warehouse in California.

[00:15:22] Well, I know it's not economically feasible for me to do so, and, and therefore I may go a more traditional round of saying, I'll just send it ground and it will be. In maybe four to six days. And so we heard just the early, the early inklings of some of these ideas without a lot of concrete plans. And so at the earlier this year, at the same time, we launched our commerce suite, we launched a new product offering for us in the fulfillment space that we call our delivery suite.

[00:15:45] And what that has really focused on is, is helping retailers. A number of different individual items in their fulfillment chain. So things like as simple as the delivery promise, when will this item show up on the customer's doorstep, which most folks have, have pretty well under control for items that are in their stores and in their warehouses, but for things that aren't under their control that are sitting in the, these brands and supplier warehouses, they're sitting in three pls and remember this, I know an inventory makes up the, the majority of selection that, that a lot of these retailers.

[00:16:17] They really have no control and no insight, and we were able to use the data that we have to be able to drive high quality and high accuracy estimates, and then you connect it into what shipping method to be used. Should I ship this by, by two day, by three day by ground? Well, it depends on what date you promise to the customer.

[00:16:34] And then how do I manage the economics of that? There are lots of different ways to rerate, What, what warehouse should I originate that shipment from? Where, you know, I may, I may choose my secondary warehouse, but it might just be on the other side of a zone line, which is gonna materially save me money in shipping.

[00:16:49] Because we work with all these suppliers, how do we drive better compliance of the ship method to be used so that when the retailer's planning on paying for say maybe a ground. How do we make sure that it actually gets coded as ground and doesn't accidentally get coded as, as three day error or something like this?

[00:17:04] All the way to visibility and tracking and out to even the consumer facing technology so that they can see, where's my package? Let me, let me track it. When is it gonna be, when is it gonna be received? How could I receive text message updates? All of the really consumer facing functions. So we worked with a couple vendors in the space to bring these together and provide our, our retailers with an all-in-one package.

[00:17:24] What we learned is we dug in. One. Most of our retailers were out purchasing individual solutions and while they could find best of breeds for each niche, what it meant was that they had a pretty high total cost of ownership in having to staff various IT people to set that up, to manage those, to do their own integration between all these tools to make them work seamlessly.

[00:17:46] And second is that all of those investments had really focused on a lot of their owned inventory, their their first party inventory. And so what we really set out to focus is make our delivery products available and functional for whether it's first party inventory or third party inventory. But we, we saw a notable a notable gap in being able to optimize the fulfillment operations, both for consumer experience and for cost, and being able to do that for all of their third party and unknown items.

[00:18:14] And we, we've seen, we've seen really substantial interest over the last six months, this was a completely new area for us. It's adjacent to what we've done on the, on the, on the unknown inventory platform. And we've seen great interest. We've seen a number of different pilots and a number of different customers already beginning to realize pretty substantial savings along the way.

[00:18:33] And we, we think we're still pretty early days in how we integrate what happens on the fulfillment side and what happens on the, on the ordering side. And we think as we can bring more and more of that insight and intelligence. It ends up winning for everybody. It wins for the end consumer because they have more accurate expectations that more consistently get met and ideally get exceeded.

[00:18:53] They have better consumers, have better visibility and better transparency to what's really happening. The retailer. Gets more, gets more accurate information to predict what's gonna happen, as well as getting better cost control, as well as taking out some of their internal costs and how they strip strip these together.

[00:19:09] And then the, the fulfillment carriers also get excited by this because there's opportunities for them to get better insight into the data of what's gonna be there when they drive a truck to go pick up at a, at a three PL location, do they need to send a 20 foot truck or a 40 foot truck today? Or do they need to send three trucks or six trucks?

[00:19:24] And being able to, to use that information to drive efficiency through the whole system ultimately results in everybody having lower costs and being able to return that in the form of lower prices to everybody in the, in the ecosystem. So we think there's a, there's a lot of legs to really further integrating these two and, and, and seeing more and more retailers think about how can they use those two halves of the business to inform each other and drive more, more value and efficiency into the system.

[00:19:48] Casey Golden: It really sounds like you're building a lot of these distribution strategies into the software to optimize for these for a more flexible business model so that it's not as painful as we remember to be able to launch a new channel or to be able to communicate across some of these different departments. Fulfillment to merchandise planning to customer experience. Do you bring, do you find that a lot this process with launching the delivery suite or just implementing it I'm sure that you guys are bringing a lot of distribution strategy and options to the table that some of these retailers or brands just really thought was out of their reach of being able to deploy.

[00:20:34] Bryan Dove: Yeah, I, I, I think one of the, one of the things that's really unique about, about the retail space is how, how substantial the scale differences are, even amongst the top, top 10 or top 15. And so if you just take, just take overall annualized sales as as just one metric of, of overall size, and you think about, you think about Amazon being in the 800 plus billion range in annual sales, then Walmart number two at 550 ish, give or take, and then you get to number three and four, and they're, they're in the 200 2200 30 billion.

[00:21:07] Two 30 billion is still a a ton of money, a ton of volume, but if you look out on a relative basis, it's pretty rare to see the step from number one to number three, be a 75% reduction. I mean, you've got a four x difference between number one and number three, and you keep going down. You get from number number three and four at 222 and 30 billion folks like Costco and Target.

[00:21:27] When you get to like number 15 on the list, you're. 20 or 25 billion. Now, again, 25 billion a year in sales is enormous. These are enormous businesses, enormous brands really delivering value for consumers. But there's still one 10th of the size of the folks who are number three and four. And so when you look at that dispersion in scale, there's, there's technologies and techniques and opportunities that are available to the, to the number one or number two players in the market that all of a sudden become less Less viable on an ROI basis to bring even to numbers 3, 4, 5, and so on.

[00:22:02] And I think what's really unique about our, about our approach is that we do work with the, the virtually all of the large retailers that are out there. So we get to see what, what the best and brightest and retail are doing, and then we work with them to say, how can we learn from that? How can we, how can we bring that at scale?

[00:22:18] And how can we democratize access to that insight and that technology in a way that benefits everybody? And again, what, what I, what I. What I really love about the retail space is as we can drive efficiency and and scale and, and flexibility into this platform, it ultimately results in lower costs, which in turn, because the sector is so competitive, results in lower costs and lower prices for consumers.

[00:22:42] And so being able to drive that efficiency all the way through the ecosystem by. Scaling, scaling these best practices and, and democratizing access. But quite frankly, we'll really guide our, guide our path over the next several years. And we continue to listen to our customers about what are the most pressing and most important items.

[00:22:56] But we think we have given our reach and engagement and the, the size and scale of, of what we internally call the commerce network of just the number of folks connected to it. We think we have a pretty unique position in the ecosystem to to democratize access to a lot of. A lot of these newer pieces of flexibility and, and efficiency.

[00:23:14] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. So speaking of, you know, consumer expectations, let's kind of shift a little bit there cuz you've mentioned a couple times right, on how retailers needing that ability to. Deliver, I'll describe it as sort of the same or meet the same expectations. Right. Whether it's their own, their inventory or the unknown inventory.

[00:23:31] Right. To your point, and if we think about how a lot of these expectations, I believe have changed or, or maybe been slightly modified a little bit of in recent years, certainly because of the changes in shopping behaviors during the pandemic. Now there's, I think, new pressures right on retailers on how they go about meeting these.

[00:23:50] Customer expectations and certainly the old tools that they're used to using are, are probably not built to support the kind of mass, direct to consumer characteristics that a lot of these expectations are really. Calling for right now based on the new experiences that consumers got so used to during the pandemic years.

[00:24:06] So so Bryan, I mean, when you look at this, what, what kind of impact are we talking about in this concept? Cause you've, you've mentioned a few examples of how , retailers using solution can really meet these expectations, deliver on those customer promises. And you've also talked about how it's not just about delivering the experience, but also doing it in a cost effective way, there's potential cost savings that can be had because you're doing things more efficiently. You know, I love the example you gave about how, you know, if you know that the particular item is in a warehouse that's relatively close to the customer's destination, then you can offer a different a different shipping shipping.

[00:24:43] Still save money in, in the process. Right? Because you're not shipping it across the country to meet that requirement. Do you have some, some data points you can share some examples on, on just what kind of, , whether it's the cost savings or, or increases in, in customer satisfaction and things that you've seen with your customers.

[00:24:58] Bryan Dove: Sure, sure. Maybe, maybe I'll share I'll share one that's that's quite solved and one that I think is really interesting. But as of yet, as of yet, unsolved, which I think is always, always interesting to talk about what else could come in the

[00:25:08] Ricardo Belmar: Right. Right.

[00:25:09] Bryan Dove: So in, in the, in the places that are solved maybe two data points that we see.

[00:25:14] One is that being able to provide certainty of when something is going to show up on your door. Which sounds so, so rudimentary and basic, but yet what you'll see across a lot of sites is either they'll see high precision on the items that they have in their warehouses and stores, but low precision on the items that are sold through that are still, they'll still, still sitting in the vendor's warehouse.

[00:25:34] You know, you might say, arrives in six to 10 days. Well, it turns out that that really hurts your conversion rate. And so a customer may come to that page, they want to buy that. But now they're worried six to 10 days. One, I might need it within a week, which is not unreasonable. And I don't know if it's gonna be there.

[00:25:51] Two, it seems so fuzzy. I'm worried six to 10 days becomes 20 days or 30 days, or I worry it's on back order. There's all these things that we've, we've been trained as consumers that, that, that, that gives me low confidence. And so we saw, we saw with one of the large retailers just being able to give delivery certainty both on parcels things that'll fit in boxes. But also on, also on appliances and refrigerators and, and, and, and furniture and just large purchases. We were able to increase the conversion rate into the into the low double digits. So when you start talking about a, plus 10 or plus 12 or plus 14% relative improvement in conversion rate on those types of items, Those are, those are tremendous value creators for both, for the retailer and for the consumer.

[00:26:33] They're already on the page, they're already on the specific item that they're looking for. This is not a, a top of funnel or browse behavior. This is the last step of add to cart, and, and we see that, We see that driving a, a tremendous tremendous benefit for consumers and for retailers. Similarly I mentioned in our delivery suite. One of the products that we work on helps give consumers visibility to where is their items, where are their stuff? And this is classically the number one driver of customer service calls. Hey, I was expecting this item on this date. Where is it? And so what we've seen is not only driving a better, higher quality consumer experience for where they can see what the, the actual status of their order is.

[00:27:09] We've seen it result in 25 to 40% lower customer service calls. We've also seen it result in higher conversion of subsequent purchase. So I'll get that update mail that says, Hey, your items on the way. It'll be there on Tuesday. And there are some links there if in case I'm looking for additional items that might be related additional categories or sales.

[00:27:28] And by doing that in a really consumer first way we've seen there was one example I saw that folks were seeing an increase of 300%. So a three x increase in the amount of total conversions and the total revenue from people clicking through that email. They had built it in-house. They upgraded from an in-house solution to the partner that we're.

[00:27:46] They were seeing a 300% increase in that in that conversion rate. And so we see really, really dramatic gains that can be had when you're able to to really orient on and meet and exceed those consumer expectations.

[00:27:58] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, three X is an amazing, amazing change, amazing improvement. 

[00:28:01] Bryan Dove: amazing 

[00:28:02] now and,

[00:28:03] Casey Golden: like on that consumer side, like as somebody who lives in Brooklyn without a doorman, Delivery time and knowing when it's arrived, it affects whether or not I'm going into the city and when I'm gonna be back. And there's many of times I do not order something online just because it may not be on my doorstep when I get back.

[00:28:22] Bryan Dove: That that's right. So that is an amazingly unplanned segue to the thing that I was gonna tease, I said is, is a growing trend but as of yet unsolved,

[00:28:29] which 

[00:28:30] Casey Golden: had somebody running around Brooklyn wearing a Monaco hoodie, and I spent three years looking for it, and

[00:28:36] Bryan Dove: Yeah,

[00:28:37] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:28:38] Bryan Dove: you're gonna, you're gonna run into them someday on the on the subway and, and you're gonna to have that moment of, how do I get this back

[00:28:44] Casey Golden: that's.

[00:28:45] Ricardo Belmar: Right

[00:28:46] Bryan Dove: Just carry the printed receipt around 

[00:28:47] Ricardo Belmar: Right . Yeah.

[00:28:49] Bryan Dove: So, so speaking of that, there's, there's an really incredible trend that I think is still in, its in its early days that there's a lot that we can adapt the ecosystem around. So this notion of buying online, picking up a store, right? Classically BOPIS and when we, when we saw this spike over the last couple years, when you think about what happened in 2020.

[00:29:08] Obviously the stores closed. You saw this massive spike in e-commerce adoption and at the time, all of us collectively believed this has just pulled the future forward. And what we've started to see is when you just look at the overall public retailer numbers and and public e-commerce numbers, you see that over 21 and 22 is things began to open up as we started to feel more comfortable in this pandemic or potentially get past it. You saw, you saw slower growth in the e-commerce space, and it almost starts to revert back to the historical trendline, historical average. Now, e-commerce is still up to the right over time, but that, that dramatic pull forward has started to start to ebb back to the, to the longer term 10 15 year trend.

[00:29:46] What's interesting to me is buy a line pickup in store when, when you look at some of these BOPIS numbers that some of the retailers put out. They were not talking about 20% year on year gains. They were talking about things like 60% gains, 80% gains, a hundred percent year on year. You see some retailers, huge retailers talking more than 50 or 60% of all online orders are fulfilled by BOPIS.

[00:30:07] Now to me, what's really fascinating is that that trend has not just been a spike in during 2020 and early 21. That trend has sustained and continues to grow. So now then I start to look at it and think, well, how is BOPIS working today? Really what it's limited to is it's limited to the stock that's on hand in the store that's around the corner from you.

[00:30:26] And so if you think about the evolution of e-commerce, we went from only buying what was in stock at our stores to now having this access to this infinite aisle, this endless aisle where all of the items were available. And now we have this new emerging preference around BOPIS. Yet BOPIS now comes back to being restricted to only the items, only the items that are on hand in the store.

[00:30:46] And so, you know, when, when I look at where is additional space for innovation by, by intersecting where consumer patterns are showing up, and what retailers are looking at is, we're, we're actively working with folks to figure out how do we expand what's available for BOPIS? How could we have you still get that convenience?

[00:31:03] Maybe it's not one hour, maybe it's 12 hours. But if you ordered it tonight, how do you go pick it up from the store tomorrow so you don't worry about the item getting stolen from your doorstep, which is not only a Brooklyn problem, it's a pretty common urban problem. And we are, we are, we are broadly a an, you know urban plus plus suburbs population.

[00:31:21] When you look at the population dynamics in a rural is a, is a relatively small portion of the population overall eCommerce spend. How do we make that safe to have things ordered at home? How do we make that safe to have the convenience so that, you know, you get that item and there's, there's a lot of drivers behind the, the rise in BOPIS There's another theory, which is, you know, we all work from home these days, or, or a number of us do.

[00:31:41] And if you work from home, sometimes you're just looking for an excuse to get outta the house, but you still want the, the convenience of e-commerce. You don't wanna be waiting through aisles with a cart and picking out all the things you need. And so it, it does BOPIS provide that middle ground where you're, you're really getting outta the house, but not, but, Reducing the time spent on the part that you don't enjoy.

[00:31:59] And so we're seeing this tremendous rise and looking at how we can help help expand that selection for what's available by Bopis. So you still get that endless aisle experience, but you're still able to leave the house, still able to go pick up the items that you want on your schedule in your time.

[00:32:11] Casey Golden: No, I think that that's great and I think , it's really important, when so many sales start online and really bringing in. We have 80% of retail that's traditionally been in store. It only makes sense to be able to window shop or browse online and swing by and pick it up. The likelihood of you buying another item is higher.

[00:32:32] And just being able to be more focused , when you're looking to make , a purchase today, you know I need something. I need it today. You go browse online and then if you don't have that pickup in store availability, or be able to filter those products to be able to say like, what is actually here?

[00:32:53] Cause I'm gonna be swinging by, or I'm coming this direction and I need to pick it up. There's a lot of, there's a lack of communication there from online to the stores. Commonly, you know, if they don't have a really good program in place. I, I look at going to five, six stores to make a purchase. I wanna know what you have.

[00:33:11] I don't wanna go to six stores. Physically . I am looking for something and I just wanna go to the store that has, has it or something that will suffice because I needed it tonight and it was last minute or whatnot. And I think that this is a big opportunity for a lot of brands to solve these inventory issues that kind of goes back to omnichannel. Really understanding where the overlap is, where your inventory levels are and how do you get it to the customer based off of like multiple options. Waiting five days is not ideal, but either is, you know, going to like seven stores in between your day to day trying to just find a sweater for a holiday party or for something. You know a lot of people wanted to get back out, but at the same time, in-store inventory was 10% of what was available online. And you'd go to the store and there's like nothing in the stores. All of these things were available online only. So big difference if you knew what your customers could pick up in store.

[00:34:18] You could plan your in-store inventory a lot better too.

[00:34:20] Bryan Dove: That's right. Well, and I think, I think you hit, hit the nail on the head with the, with the 10% number, which is, if somebody has, I'll make up a million s skews. They may have only 30,000, 50,000, maybe a hundred thousand in, in the store, minus whatever is currently outta stock or sold out. Cuz they only stocked one or two or three of, of a lot of these SKUs.

[00:34:42] And so the idea that I need it tonight you know, you're pretty limited, but if you could get it in the morning. All of a sudden, what's available in the morning is 40,000 SKUs. Maybe not the full, maybe not the, the, you know, the, the full million skews, but maybe 40,000, maybe a hundred thousand, maybe 200,000, some meaningful portion of that million SKUs all of a sudden is available on relatively short notice that all of a sudden changes the, the way that you think about this, rather than waiting three or four days for it to get home.

[00:35:09] Casey Golden: how you filter, how you search from like the first click is like, show me, this, I need it around this time. Rather than looking at product first, you're looking at filter my product based off of timelines and availability.

[00:35:23] Bryan Dove: That That's exactly right. And, and I, you know what I find in the B2B space, the place I always try to anchor myself is I start from what is the consumer experience and work backwards. And I feel like if there's something that's, that meaningfully improves the consumer experience going from, you know, tens of thousands of SKUs to hundreds of thousands of SKUs that I can pick up within the next 12 hours, that's a great upgrade.

[00:35:43] And then it turns out being able to do that drives better economic efficiency for the retailer and for the brand as well. And so now all of a sudden that becomes not just a viable option, but in fact sometimes a preferred option. And when you have this intersection of better for the consumer and more efficient and effective for for all of the businesses in the operational chain, that, that's really where I I where I start to see the magic light up.

[00:36:06] And, and I think those are the types of scenarios and combinations that when we're talking with our customers, we really look for and say, Now is there, is there an interesting or unique way that we can invest to enable that scenario in a way that's gonna benefit every single member of the of the ecosystem?

[00:36:21] And, and those we find are the winners that we really try to focus on.

[00:36:24] Casey Golden: Yeah, your white boarding sessions sound like fun.

[00:36:27] Ricardo Belmar: In this case, Bryan, isn't it really a situation where the data's there for the retailer and maybe not in one place, obviously, but in lots of different systems potentially, but to a certain degree where at this scenario you've just described in trying to solve this challenge, it seems like it just comes down to being able to collect the data from all these different areas and find the right way to surface that The corresponding insight that you're really getting at here, right into how do I make these additional products available to, to a a, a BOPIS customer right at the time that they wanted to be available knowing that I probably have an item somewhere, but it may or may not be in the right place at the right time.

[00:37:06] Bryan Dove: That, that, that's exactly right. I think all of this data to somebody in the, in the ecosystem, they have all the data. The difficulty of can you find the right data? Can you, can you make it usable and can you intersect it in ways that ultimately benefits everybody? I think that's where, where everybody needs to focus on what they're great at.

[00:37:28] You know, if I'm a retailer, what I'm, what I'm amazing at is finding my target customer segments, understanding what they're looking for, being able to reach them consistently and do so at, do so at relatively low cost. That that's how they're, that's how they're able to generate these, these large level of sales and, and do it profitably.

[00:37:44] If I look at brands, they really understand their core customer and. Understand their tastes and preferences, and then they're able to, to get that to their customers, both through direct channels as well as through through retail channels. And you know, I, I look at companies like Commerce Hub and other technology companies in, in the e-commerce ecosystem.

[00:38:02] Our focus is really on how do we take the data that's available, How do we take the, how do we find those insights of ways that we can improve a workflow that adds benefits and efficiency to everybody in the, in the chain. Democratize that through technology so that everybody gets access to those benefits and technology in a way that works for them.

[00:38:20] And then this, the level of scale works for us. And so, you know, I think everybody's got a role to play and, and we try to, we try to do our best at listening to our customers and focus on ours.

[00:38:28] Casey Golden: I think it's really great and I think that that's a, a wonderful term by democratizing access to technology because a lot of the times the technology costs are so large and to be able to obtain an ROI from it quick enough to validate that cost. Sometimes it's just, it's too much for a brand to be able to take on sometimes to be moved from number 15 to number eight, you know?

[00:38:55] But 15 to number eight is huge. But these technology costs have definitely been almost gated by needing to be able to have a certain level of cash and resources to be able to implement some of the great solutions that are at that are available for the one Twos and threes.

[00:39:15] Bryan Dove: Absolutely at, at a earlier point in my career, in my life, I spent, I spent about a decade building software for large hospital organizations. And it, you know, when you look at those, it's a, it's a, it's a different world than retail, but I think from a technology perspective, they were in a really similar place.

[00:39:33] You have even more specialization you can imagine. The software for the radiology folks doing x-rays is different than the software for the cardiologist doing heart exams, which is different than the, the nurses doing general intake versus the the ICU and and everything else. And so they had hundreds of these individual pieces of software and the IT costs were just becoming overwhelming.

[00:39:56] Cuz even if you just think I only need one person to maintain each product. Next thing you know, if you've got a, a group of three or four hospitals, you might have 1500 pieces of software, and you really saw, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, you started to see these, these hospital chains really start to crumble under the, the technology burden.

[00:40:12] And, and out of that, you saw a few technology companies really rise by, by focusing on reducing that total cost of ownership. Easing that integration and making more and more of that functionality available to everybody, not just the two or three hospitals that, that had disproportionate scale, but really across the, the whole country and eventually the world.

[00:40:32] And so having, having lived through that, and as I've gotten to know the e-commerce space more and more, I think there's a, there's a similar pattern that's starting to play out because e-commerce was, was so nascent for the first 20 years that it was just about, I need to have more items. I need to be able to reach more customers.

[00:40:47] I need to be able to, I need to have more warehouse capacity, I need to have more fulfillment capacity. It was really about that scale up, but we've now started to reach this place where the scale, the growth, and the scale is swelling. And now it becomes a focus on efficiency. And I think the innovation that we'll see over the next 10 years is all about finding, not only can I take cost out, but can I increase and improve the consumer experience while I'm taking cost out.

[00:41:11] And I think that's really where, where this notion of, of democratizing access to this technology and enabling some of these mid-size, mid-size folks or even the folks that have, have large scale and absolute terms. But, but under scale in retailer terms how do we help them compete with With the largest changes and with the largest businesses.

[00:41:31] And, and then how do we partner with the largest businesses and help support them to, to spend their, their resources on the things that benefit consumers most rather than building infrastructure and tools. And so that's really how we focus on enabling the whole, the whole ecosystem.

[00:41:43] Casey Golden: I think it's great. I really love seeing just a focus on your technology spend and how that affects the customer experience. We've been depicting the rules for a long time. And not really considering them in our software decisions. And now I feel that how any software impacts the customer experience is a conversation that's being had before contracts are signed.

[00:42:04] And I think it's, I think that's definitely a step in the right direction.

[00:42:07] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. And I think it also relates to an issue that when we last spoke with you, we talked about, if you have a retailer who able to spend on the right technology to help accomplish all these things. You're also kind of balancing that against what's the cash outlay for that owned inventory that you need to keep up with.

[00:42:24] And given that we've kind of entered a holiday shopping season here, we know that the, the traditional retail approaches to really stock up on inventory for those holiday selling period. But there's also right, a model that says, You know what, what about having a more of a just in time merchandising?

[00:42:41] Model for how you do this, particularly if you are becoming a marketplace. And I think you, you have some thoughts on, on this, right, Bryan?

[00:42:47] Bryan Dove: Y Yeah, certainly. I, you know, I think fir first and foremost, if you asked a business, if you could meet all of your customer needs, would you rather put more of your cash at risk or less of your cash at risk? The, the answer is, The answer's pretty simple, right? I'd much rather conserve my cash and hold it in my bank account if I could still fulfill and meet all of my, all of my customer needs.

[00:43:08] And so, You know, I look at that first as a trend and think, Well, if we can, if we land on the right side of that, then we're probably onto something. And then second is we look at, well, what are the, what are the barriers to meeting all of their, to meeting all of their consumer needs? And there are a number of them.

[00:43:25] I mean, if we look over the last 18 months, we've all lived through these, these incredible supply chain challenges. And not only did you see the, the sometimes historical trends of, Let me boost the inventory I own, as we get into the holiday. But you saw a number of folks placing orders over the last 12 or 18 months to buy more inventory because they were just scared of having empty shelves.

[00:43:44] And then what you saw in some of the public earning announcements earlier this year, you know, at the end of q1, at the end of q2, you heard people talking about now an inventory surplus. They'd built up all this inventory, but as demand began to contract, they ended up with surplus of what they didn't want and, and they have to start clearing it out.

[00:44:00] And so we, we think one. Enabling retailers to conserve their cash or to choose to deploy it elsewhere. It, as long as they can meet all their customer expectations, it is better for their model. And so we really try to think about it less of what is the balance between owned versus unowned inventory and more, how do we enable more of the un unknown inventory to still meet all those consumer expectations?

[00:44:25] And so when we, when we look at that, that notion of just in time merchandising, we think. How are we enabling more variety and more selection to still meet those consumer expectations? Things like next day Bo as a, as a place that we're looking at things like what we're already doing today of narrowing that expectation of when is that item really gonna be on my doorstep?

[00:44:45] Or there's, there's other work that we've done with some of our customers where they may have multiple suppliers who provide the same item. And so how do we just automate the process of dropping through that supply? So when your preferred supplier sells through their. You don't need a merchandise person to go change things.

[00:45:01] We just wanna fulfill from the next available supplier who has the next best, next, best offering, or next best price or next best shipping method. And how do we just automate that so it's not blocked by some, by some employee in the merchandising or supply chain team, quite frankly, to go in and hit, hit a green button to turn it on.

[00:45:17] How do we just automate that process? And so we're, we're often looking for ways to take friction out of the system and, and bring some of that more real time and reaction. Experience to, to the offers. I, I think the, maybe the, the more, the broader trend around just in time merchandising is one that's gonna evolve quite frankly over the next few years.

[00:45:38] And when, when I look at that, I heard I was talking to one of our retailer executives and, and he made a really interesting comment to me. And his comment was that he sees merchandising shifting from a group of folks who curate particular items. To a group who really curates and nurtures relationships with brands, and, and I thought that that was a, a really interesting notion.

[00:45:59] We spent a lot of time talking about it. And what it really came down to is that if you think about the world of not just technology, retailers for years have been AB testing on their website, what is the page? What is the orientation that's gonna deliver the best, the best conversion rate, the best experience for consumers?

[00:46:15] The best return rate I'm sorry, retention. But you have not seen a lot of that concept extend into the actual items that are being carried. And so where, where I heard this, this retail exec talking about really shifting to a relationship with brands and thinking, how do you entice a brand to just carry their whole catalog?

[00:46:33] And you can almost start to use your website as a way to test if a, if a, maybe a brand has 10,000 items. Well, you're only gonna carry probably 200 of them in the. How do you know which 200 to carry and how do you start to let the website and your consumer demand through your website actually give you the data to know of these, of these 10,000 items this brand carries which of the 200 that resonate most with your customers.

[00:46:58] And there's something really powerful about knowing that if you're on you know, abc.com, the customers who are already shopping there are telling you which of this brand's products they love most and then being able to upgrade that. So, A separate season, not a new wholesale order, not a new, not a new relationship or system setup or six month lag, but how would you change that from a per unit drop ship order or a pure unit marketplace order?

[00:47:25] And how would you just order a thousand of those most popular I of those 200 popular items to just ship them into your stores directly? And so when we look at this, this notion of just in time merchandising over the next few years, we really see the technology doing more and more automation of the, of the easy and obvious tasks, enabling merchants to be far more sophisticated, far more data led, and thinking much more about relationships with brands and that escalation path that, that some of those SKUs are gonna be sold in the marketplace model.

[00:47:56] Some are gonna be drop ship and some of they're gonna make it to the store. And how do we use data to, to really rethink that process and, and evolve it in a way that that just has, has yet to penetrate the, the way that we approach retail today.

[00:48:07] Casey Golden: No, I think I, you, you, you beat me to the punch. My, my last question was really No, it was perfect. Was really about like what do you see the biggest change in commerce will be? That will be a new standard in, in about five years. And I think that just in time merchandising pan, like full stop, there's so much opportunity to make sure that the right product is being shown to the right customer at the right.

[00:48:30] I've been a buyer in a former life, and yeah, you shoot from the hip. There's not a lot of data decisions that are made from that. And so there's such a huge opportunity of having the right product or that customer at the right time versus marketing a product to all the customers for a period of.

[00:48:47] Bryan Dove: Well, as a merchandiser, as a buyer. What you're really trying to do is predict the future. You're trying to predict which products your customers will love most. 

[00:48:56] Casey Golden: Without customer data

[00:48:59] Ricardo Belmar: it's all about the data.

[00:49:01] Bryan Dove: Well, you know, this is not an exclusively retail problem. I mean, across all of technology. For years and years, people have tried to, to, to predict the future of what, of what their customers would want in whatever sector they. And I think what, what we've learned across almost every sector is that at scale our opinions kind of suck.

[00:49:24] Like our opinions aren't, aren't very accurate. You know, we have instincts in the directions our ability to read the market of the direction we should go in tends to be pretty accurate. But our ability to read the direction of the specifics and the details is pretty tough. And this is why you see, you know, AB testing is maybe the easiest thing to point to, but it's not the exclusive one.

[00:49:44] You see across every industry and every sector, this continual shift to data driven decision making. And today, while it has penetrated things like the, the front end of the, of the retailers' website, it has not made it all the way into the backend, into the merchandising selection, into fulfillment strategies, into into warehouse locations and positioning.

[00:50:05] There are, there are more and more places where we can use more data from the end. To drive better and smarter decisions and, and to let the data guide guide the way. And I think that is just a, a continual evolution that, that all of us have had to experience across basically every, every vertical because it's, you know, unless somebody's got a crystal ball, I don't know about, or, or a DeLorean that can go back in time, like predicting the future is, is it's really hard.

[00:50:31] And so that, that's where we try to think about partnering with our customers to, to enable a more data driven approach.

[00:50:35] Casey Golden: Yeah, everybody has an opinion in retail, right? And, you know, we've had to rely on that for, for decades. That opinion has carried a lot of weight on business decisions. And I think that, you know, we, I really appreciate you joining us today to dig into this much needed discussion as we approach the new year, new budgets holiday season.

[00:50:57] Coming in really fast right now, so I have a feeling our listeners will hit the replay button and grab a notebook,

[00:51:04] Bryan Dove: Oh, that's, that's very kind to 

[00:51:05] Casey Golden: uh, re-listen 

[00:51:06] Bryan Dove: both so much for having me today.

[00:51:07] Casey Golden: , if any of our listeners, they, if they wanna learn more about Commerce Hub and how you might be able to help them, how should they reach out to you or, or follow you as, as you guys post more information and more case studies and things of that nature.

[00:51:20] Bryan Dove: Sure. Easiest thing to do, just to learn more about our products and services, it's commerce hub.com spelled exactly like it sounds. You can also, we post a, a number of stories and, and, and insights that we've learned along the way. On the Commerce Hub LinkedIn account, that's probably the, the most active place where we post content or if anybody has specific questions or wants to get in touch.

[00:51:37] I'm, I'm personally quite findable on LinkedIn. Feel, Feel more than free to just reach out to me directly and I'll happily direct you to the right folks on our team.

[00:51:43] Ricardo Belmar: Okay. Fantastic. Well, thanks again, Bryan for joining us. We really hope to have you back again soon. This has been a really insightful discussion.

[00:51:50] Casey Golden: I mean, I can keep 

[00:51:51] you here all day. So Ricardo, I think it's that time for us to wrap up this episode, but thank you again, Brian. Really appreciate it.

[00:51:58] Bryan Dove: All right, thanks, y'all. Have a great day.

[00:52:00] Show Close

[00:52:00] Casey Golden: We hope you enjoyed our show and we can't ask you enough to please give us a five star rating and review on apple podcast to help us grow and bring you more great episodes. If you don't wanna miss a minute of what's next, be sure to smash that subscribe button in your favorite podcast player. And don't forget to check out our show notes for handy links and more deets. I'm your host, Casey Golden. 

[00:52:32] Ricardo Belmar: And if you'd like to learn more about the two of us, follow us on Twitter at Casey c golden and Ricardo underscore Belmar, or find us on LinkedIn. Be sure to follow the show on LinkedIn and Twitter at retail razor. Plus our YouTube channel for videos of each episode and bonus content. I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar.

[00:52:48] Casey Golden: Thanks for joining us.

[00:52:50] Ricardo Belmar: And remember, there's never been a better time to be in retail. If you cut through the clutter until next time, this is the retail razor show.