Kathryn Paige Harden On Genes And Morality

Mar 6, 2026

Kathryn Paige Harden, behavioral geneticist and psychology professor at UT Austin and author of The Genetic Lottery and Original Sin, joins to explore genetics, morality, and responsibility. She discusses growing up evangelical, twin studies of faith, genetic links to violence and cooperation, how biology shapes choice, and the tension between accountability and punishment.

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Books

Transcript

Episode notes

ANECDOTE

From Evangelical Upbringing To Mouse Lab Revelation

Kathryn Paige Harden left an evangelical upbringing and found science in college, starting work in a behavioral neuroscience mouse lab as a freshman.
She cleaned mouse cages and performed basic brain surgeries, which convinced her genes can be manipulated to change behavior and sparked her career.

ANECDOTE

Evangelical Fiction Led To A 'Villainous' Mentor

Harden recounts being influenced by Frank Peretti novels and then ironically working for the 'villainous' female psychology professor depicted in such fiction.
That professor invited her into research, igniting Harden's lifelong interest in behavior genetics.

INSIGHT

Genetics Reopens Theological Questions About Blame

Harden ties modern behavioral genetics to theological questions about original sin and predestination, asking how inherited predispositions affect blame.
She notes genes influence addiction, violence, and religiousness, reviving Augustine- and Calvin-era puzzles about responsibility.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

Paige is a scientist and writer. She’s a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin, where she directs the Developmental Behavior Genetics lab and serves as Director of Clinical Training. She’s the author of The Genetic Lottery: Why DNA Matters for Social Equality, and her new book is Original Sin: On the Genetics of Vice, The Problem of Blame, and The Future of Forgiveness. It’s about the eternal question of what sin is; and where it comes from; and whether our guilt is justified. We had a great chat.

For two clips of our convo — on the proclivity for violence in our genes, and even religion! — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: growing up in a conservative religious household outside Memphis; not knowing any non-evangelicals until college; original sin and Augustine; Aquinas; Calvinism; genetics as predestination; how humans evolved to be more cooperative and non-violent than apes; the genes of violent criminals; the overwhelming disparity of men versus women in prison; accountability vs punishment; free will; God in the gaps; the genetic predisposition for faith; Tourette’s at BAFTA; addiction; how drugs change your brain; AA as Christianity with the theology removed; mental illness; my bipolar and borderline mother; Pascal; philosopher Hanna Pickard; poet Carl Phillips; how genes affect horniness; testosterone and sex; the documentary Seven Up; how identical twins become more similar in middle age; and my initial reactions to the war in Iran.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Matt Goodwin on the political earthquake in the UK, Jeffrey Toobin on the pardon power, Derek Thompson on abundance, Jonah Goldberg on the state of conservatism, Tom Holland on the Christian roots of liberalism, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy in a liberal democracy, and Adrian Wooldridge on “the lost genius of liberalism.” As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.