Thinking About Nature With Brian McLaren

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Prayer doesn’t always happen in a church. Sometimes it happens under streetlights or beside old trees. We open with Randy’s simple practice of late night walks and how nature has slowly become the place where his spirituality feels dynamic again. That shift also brings a collision with old religious instincts: the inner voice that says connection is dangerous, that wonder is “worship,” that the world exists mainly to serve us.

Brian McLaren joins us to widen the frame. We talk about childhood experiences of creation, why Genesis begins with the goodness and value of the world, and how Psalm 19 might be less about “the book of nature” and more about wisdom embedded in reality itself. Kyle presses on the honest question: what makes a mountain feel like God instead of just a mountain? From awe to fear, from humility to love, we explore why these experiences can be spiritually formative.

The conversation then turns outward to ethics and survival. We dig into reciprocity versus domination, how capitalism trains us for transaction without relationship, and how Darwin’s “survival of the fittest” is often misunderstood. We also unpack pantheism and panentheism in plain language, wrestle with the moral weight of eating and harm, and return to the biblical tension of “till and keep” as both permission and responsibility. Finally, Brian shares why he wrote his sci fi novel The Last Voyage, how climate overshoot and oligarchy shape the story, and why resignation, whether optimistic or pessimistic, is the enemy of faithful action.

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