Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery with Rian Johnson

Dec 15, 2025

Rian Johnson, celebrated filmmaker behind hits like Knives Out and Looper, dives into the complexities of his new film, Wake Up Dead Man. He discusses how his teenage experiences with faith fuelled the writing of Father Judd, revealing a deeply personal narrative. The conversation explores balancing humor and critique of religion’s intersection with politics, while detailing the challenges of his hardest script yet. Rian also shares insights on crafting compelling characters and the pursuit of truth, ultimately highlighting the transformative journey of storytelling.

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INSIGHT

Fear Fuels Political Christianity

Johnson links his evangelical upbringing to today's fusion of Christianity with right-wing politics.
He argues fear-based 'us versus them' framing enables dangerous actions by convincing people they're under siege.

ANECDOTE

Camp Game That Shaped Mindsets

Johnson recounts a Christian camp 'night run' that taught campers to expect persecution.
He now sees that exercise as shaping an 'us against them' worldview rooted in fear and resentment.

ADVICE

Balance Brutality With Generosity

Johnson warns writers to balance honesty and generosity when tackling fraught themes.
He recommends being brutal but also offering grace so the story doesn't feel didactic or merely offensive.

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There’s a mystery afoot on today’s episode of Script Apart – and that mystery is how you write a film like Wake Up Dead Man, the new Knives Out movie from my guest today, Rian Johnson. How do you craft a whodunit that’s simultaneously gripping, hilarious and loaded with weighty reflections on religion’s use as a weapon of fear in our current political climate? In the words of Benoit Blanc, it “makes no damn sense” to me, “Compels me, though.”

Which is why it was such a treat to ask the man himself. Rian’s a filmmaker who you might know from 2005 high school noir Brick, 2008’s The Brothers Bloom or the fantastic 2012 sci-fi Looper. He directed one of the best episodes of TV this side of the millennium in the form of Breaking Bad’s ‘Fly’ episode, and created the brilliant Poker Face, starring Natasha Lyonne. In 2019, he wrote and directed Knives Out, starring Daniel Craig as a Southern-accented sleuth, which was a huge sensation. A sequel followed in 2022, as part of a major deal with Netflix. And somewhere amid all that, he made a low-budget indie that probably completely passed under your radar because it was barely discussed upon release. Let me just check my notes here… Star Wars: The Last Jedi? Never heard of it personally.

Wake Up Dead Man is maybe his most personal and politically-charged film yet, though, as you’ll hear in this conversation. Rian’s relationship with religion is… well, it’s complicated. In this spoiler conversation, he tells me about his lapsed faith and story of growing up in the Church… before leaving it. It’s a story that totally altered my perspective on The Last Jedi – a movie about lapsed faith – and shone a fascinating light on this latest adventure in the life of Benoit Blanc. We get into the overlap between the “cult of personality” church figurehead, Wicks, in Wake Up Dead Man and the politicians in our newspaper headlines each morning right now – many of whom position themselves of Christians and preach messages of fear; them against us. And Rian also tells me what the future perhaps looks like for him, twenty years on from Brick – the next steps in his storytelling to come.

Script Apart is hosted by Al Horner and produced by Kamil Dymek. Follow us on Instagram, or email us on thescriptapartpodcast@gmail.com.

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