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The NYC Public Defender Who Sends Books to Prisoners

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Mar 5, 2026

Guest

Ben Schatz

Ben Schatz, a New York City public defender who founded Books Beyond Bars to send requested books to incarcerated people, discusses True Grit and the role of literature behind bars. He describes how books offer escape and dignity, critiques plea bargaining and mass incarceration, and reflects on compassion, mental health in prisons, and practical ideas to improve the system.

55:45

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ANECDOTE

How Books Beyond Bars Began From Client Requests

Ben Schatz started Books Beyond Bars by asking his own incarcerated clients what they wanted to read.
He and an office mate bought requested books and sent hundreds monthly across New York for a decade, prompting many handwritten thank-you letters.

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ANECDOTE

Prisoners Explain What Books Actually Do For Them

Participants send handwritten letters describing how books keep them sane, provide escape, and replace TV.
Examples include requests for Lee Child, mental health books, law texts, and how-to manuals for post-release jobs.

insights

INSIGHT

True Grit Centers A Remarkably Mature 14-Year Narrator

True Grit's uniqueness comes from 14-year-old Maddie Ross narrating a Western quest for vengeance, blending mature voice with youthful perspective.
Her matter-of-fact, pious, numbers-savvy character reframes the typical male-centered Western.

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Ben's public defender background

01:04 • 2min

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How Books Beyond Bars started

02:53 • 2min

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What incarcerated readers request

05:00 • 1min

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Letters from readers behind bars

06:08 • 4min

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Why Ben chose True Grit

09:57 • 2min

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True Grit: story overview

12:15 • 2min

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Maddie Ross's voice and character

Humor and poignancy in Maddie's lines

19:59 • 3min

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Rooster Cogburn and Labeef contrasted

22:49 • 8min

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What 'true grit' means

Why True Grit helps incarcerated readers

35:45 • 3min

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Flaws Ben sees in the justice system

38:30 • 4min

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On the ground: mentally ill and addicted people

42:34 • 2min

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Why Ben keeps doing this work

44:47 • 3min

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Ideas to improve the system

47:20 • 2min

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Lightning round: favorites and recommendations

48:59 • 5min

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How to support Books Beyond Bars

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True grit

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Set in the Old West of 1870s Arkansas and the Indian Territory, 'True Grit' tells the story of Mattie Ross, a determined and independent 14-year-old girl who seeks to avenge her father's murder. With the help of Marshal Reuben J. 'Rooster' Cogburn and a Texas Ranger named LaBoeuf, Mattie embarks on a perilous journey to capture the killer, Tom Chaney. The novel explores themes of justice, vengeance, sacrifice, perseverance, and redemption, and is known for its vivid characters and its blend of humor, adventure, and historical context.

In this episode, Shilo Brooks sits down with New York City public defender Ben Schatz to discuss the novel True Grit–and the nature of justice in America.

Ben founded the nonprofit Books Beyond Bars, which sends requested books (not just random donations) to individuals locked in in New York jails and prisons, giving them dignity, mental escape, and intellectual stimulation.

After discussing True Grit, Ben offers his critique of the U.S. criminal justice system itself: its coercive plea bargaining, racism, overburdened defenders and judges, and prisons that function more as warehouses than places of rehabilitation, especially for mentally ill and addicted people.

Throughout, the conversation links the moral center of True Grit to real‑world questions about what justice is, who deserves mercy, and how to look past someone’s criminal history.

Old School is proudly brought to you by the Jack Miller Center. If you believe in the importance of civic education and want to help prepare the next generation to carry on our democracy, join us at JackMillerCenter.org.

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