The System Is the Problem: Rethinking Business at the Systems Level | Sandra Waddock

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Jul 29, 2025

Sandra Waddock, a renowned Boston College professor and leading expert on systems change and sustainable business, delves into the radical shifts needed in corporate purpose. She critiques current growth-focused models, advocating for a holistic approach to organizational change. Waddock emphasizes the importance of leadership as a sense-making process and how small actions can incite substantial system transformations. The conversation explores the need for businesses to foster connections rather than control, alongside the role of moral imagination in crafting a flourishing future.

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INSIGHT

Balancing Cohesion and Autonomy

Shared vision on a common agenda fosters cohesion among independent entities.
Respecting autonomy allows entities to act uniquely while contributing to system change.

INSIGHT

Iterative Reflection and Action

Systemic transformation requires iterative reflection and action cycles.
Effective change happens through real-world experimentation and co-creation among diverse stakeholders.

INSIGHT

Making Mental Models Explicit

Neoliberalism’s implicit linear and self-interest assumptions limit systemic understanding.
Making these mental models explicit opens possibilities for alternative, ecologically grounded economics.

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Sandra Waddock has spent decades exploring the systems beneath the systems, asking questions about purpose, story, and the deeper operating logic of business. Sandra argues that the current model focused on growth, control, and short-term profit is no longer serving people or the planet. Instead of fixing surface-level symptoms, she invites us to reimagine the foundational assumptions business is built on.

In this episode, Dart and Sandra talk about the myths that drive our current system, the limits of control, and the power of new narratives. They explore leadership as sensemaking, how small actions can shift big systems, and what it means to build organizations that support life, not just profit.

Sandra Waddock is a professor at Boston College and a leading voice on systems change, corporate responsibility, and sustainable business. She’s the author of Catalyzing Transformation and has earned multiple lifetime achievement awards for her work.

In this episode, Dart and Sandra discuss:
- Why business needs a new operating system
- The myths that hold outdated systems in place
- How to shift from control to connection
- Leadership as sense-making
- Why small wins matter more than we think
- The role of moral imagination in business
- Designing for flourishing, not just growth
- And more…

Sandra Waddock is the Galligan Chair of Strategy, Carroll School Scholar of Corporate Responsibility, and Professor of Management at Boston College’s Carroll School of Management. A globally recognized expert in systems transformation, corporate responsibility, and sustainable enterprise, her work brings together systems thinking, narrative change, and human development to explore new models for business. She has received multiple lifetime achievement awards, including honors from the Principles for Responsible Management Education (PRME), Humboldt University, and the Humanistic Management Network. Sandra’s latest book, Catalyzing Transformation, offers a practical framework for driving large-scale systems change.

Resources Mentioned:
Sandra’s Book, Catalyzing Transformation: Making System Change Happen: https://www.amazon.com/Catalyzing-Transformation-Making-System-Change/dp/1637425082

Connect with Sandra:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandra-waddock/
Profile: https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/schools/carroll-school/faculty-research/faculty-directory/sandra-waddock.html

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.