#821: My Two-Year Secret Project, COYOTE — The Strategies and Tactics for Building a Bestseller from Nothing with Elan Lee of Exploding Kittens

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Aug 6, 2025

Elan Lee, co-creator and CEO of Exploding Kittens, shares his journey in game design, revealing insights from his childhood to the creation of the card game COYOTE. He discusses the significance of collaboration and the creative process in developing the game, blending classic mechanics with unique strategies. Lee emphasizes the importance of community feedback and effective marketing in launching successful games, alongside challenges faced in distribution and retail strategies. Tune in for an engaging look at innovation within the competitive gaming industry!

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Underdog Sabotage Cards

The 'attack' cards in Coyote emerged to balance player skill differences and allow underdogs to sabotage leaders.
This mechanic evolved through playing and testing with diverse player types.

Crafting Mastery in Games

Great games make players feel "I can do this" initially, then show them a path to mastery.
The challenge must continually evolve so players rethink strategies and keep succeeding.

Coyote Takes Over Convention

At a major convention, Coyote spontaneously became the most popular game, dominating all tables.
This moment confirmed the team’s hard work and the game’s appeal.

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This is a very special episode for me. My brand-new card game, COYOTE, created in collaboration with Elan Lee and Exploding Kittens, is here. It is available in ~8,000 locations worldwide, including Walmart, Target, Amazon, and many others. Learn more: https://coyotegame.com.

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Timestamps:

[00:00:00] Start.

[00:05:21] Coyote: a game 47 years in the making.

[00:08:41] Who is Elan Lee?

[00:09:37] How our motivations behind game creation intersect.

[00:12:41] The nutshell view of pitching a game to a retailer.

[00:14:40] Salesmanship is a learnable skill, but Elan’s a natural.

[00:15:53] Why I’ve always wanted to make my own game and how development began in earnest.

[00:26:00] First contact with Elan and our fast-forged, fun-focused friendship.

[00:32:28] The Hanabi and Rock, Paper, Scissors-inspired Toronto trip breakthrough.

[00:39:40] Early prototyping and testing.

[00:45:34] The Zero Effect.

[00:47:37] Recommended game design rationales, resources, and reading.

[00:53:00] The beginner’s mind approach to writing effective game instructions.

[00:56:26] A simple fact: less complication = more fun.

[00:57:49] Cooperative vs. competitive play.

[00:58:24] Leveling the playing field with attack cards and sabotage mechanics.

[01:01:34] Tricking people into cognitively bettering themselves by gaming.

[01:08:04] Finding the sweet spot.

[01:10:44] It takes a lot of work to make a game effortlessly fun.

[01:13:40] How many games does Exploding Kittens publish per year?

[01:14:36] Exploding Kittens’ number-one seller was designed by Elan’s four-year-old daughter.

[01:18:30] Prototypes and pitching.

[01:22:26] Improving on the industry’s fundamentally flawed testing procedure.

[01:24:58] Analyzing passing/failure with play testers’ video and feedback.

[01:28:41] Risks of internal testing.

[01:31:47] Coyote’s first positive signs from the wild.

[01:34:22] Online vs. physical store sales and tweaking variables to gauge market interest.

[01:41:22] What a successful line review looks like.

[01:43:51] Line review hoops through which lesser-proven companies have to hop.

[01:48:04] Elan’s field-tested line review meeting strategies.

[01:54:15] The importance of finding proper agent representation.

[01:59:35] In modern marketing, social media (especially short-form video) is king.

[02:04:48] The best and worst ways for an aspiring designer to sell a game.

[02:13:05] Crowdfunding pros and cons, and Kickstarter alternatives.

[02:19:57] Dealing with deal terms.

[02:23:56] The Exploding Kittens attitude toward rare partnerships.

[02:25:45] The types of games that capture Elan’s attention.

[02:27:40] Common game design mistakes.

[02:29:49] How we tried to avoid these mistakes when packaging Coyote.

[02:33:55] Self-publishing vs. conventional publishing.

[02:38:40] Business considerations and risks.

[02:44:59] Parting thoughts and a tantalizing offer.

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