607. Navigating Gender Equality and Patriarchy in the Modern Workplace feat. Cordelia Fine

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Dec 18, 2025

Cordelia Fine, a professor at the University of Melbourne and author of influential books on gender, delves into the complexities of gender equality in the workplace. She critiques traditional explanations for wage gaps, discussing how patriarchal structures hinder true equity. Fine argues for contextually aware DEI strategies and challenges the myths promoted by evolutionary psychology. The conversation explores how occupational segregation persists and emphasizes the need for systemic organizational changes rather than simply 'fixing' women.

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INSIGHT

A Broader Definition Of Patriarchy

Fine defines patriarchy as gendered arrangements that give men collective status and power over resources.
She stresses harms extend to men too via restrictive gender norms and institutional expectations.

INSIGHT

Why Gendered Labor Persists

Gendered division of labor is universal but partly arbitrary and culturally evolved.
Cultural evolutionary theory explains why groups using sex to split tasks persist even when assignments are arbitrary.

INSIGHT

Preferences Can Be Shaped Unjustly

Preferences can be real yet formed by unjust social processes, creating 'adaptive preferences'.
Fine highlights that identifying with a preference doesn't erase the injustice of its formation.

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How can organizations make more equitable changes to their internal norms and structures, to promote fairness over merely seeking profit? What are alternate ways to tackle the difference in agreeableness that underpins many professional gaps between men and women?

Cordelia Fine is a professor in the history and philosophy of science department at University of Melbourne, as well as the author of several books, including Patriarchy Inc.: What We Get Wrong About Gender Equality and Why Men Still Win at Work, Delusions of Gender: How Our Minds, Society, and Neurosexism Create Difference, and Testosterone Rex: Myths of Sex, Science, and Society.

Greg and Cordelia discuss the complexities surrounding gender equality, including the contested reasons for wage differences and occupational gaps between men and women. Cordelia critiques the traditional and evolving gender norms, explains her stance on DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) strategies, and advocates for more nuanced, context-aware approaches to addressing gender disparities. She challenges oversimplified evolutionary psychology narratives and underscores the importance of understanding the cultural evolution of gender roles.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Episode Quotes:

Why valuing women isn’t enough

52:52: You can say pretty words about valuing the feminine. Oh, you know, women are great. They’re so wonderful. They’re so empathic and collaborative and participative, and they’re really good at building people. But you can’t just say that—you have to actually change your organizations so that you literally put your money where your mouth is, so that is what is actually being rewarded.

Redefining patriarchy

10:37: There’s a sort of assumption that when we talk about patriarchy, we’re just talking about the harm to girls and women. Its long been recognized, I think, in feminism that often men and certain groups of men do also face harms in that kind of system that’s keeping some men on top.

Why our ideas about sex differences often get it wrong

20:58: I do think we have to be careful about looking at our—first of all, making assumptions about what sex differences actually are—because they’re often, you know, a huge amount of overlap, contingent depending on the context and the cues. But also, to then project that back into our ancestral past without taking a kind of wider look at societies beyond the weird populations—Western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic.

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Related Unsiloed Episode:

Claudia Goldin - Understanding the Gender Wage Gap

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