State Capture and the Meaning of Democracy with Samuel Bagg

On this episode of Virtual Sentiments, Kristen Collins speaks with political theorist Samuel Bagg about his recent book The Dispersion of Power: A Critical Realist Theory of Democracy (Oxford University Press, 2024). Instead of understanding democracy as an idealized process of collective self-rule, Bagg argues that democracy’s core purpose is to prevent any one group from capturing the state. The conversation explores how this focus on state capture reshapes debates about populism, technocracy, and liberalism, while offering a more realistic account of how power operates in modern societies. Collins and Bagg also discuss the dangers of over-intellectualizing politics, the limits of deliberative democracy, and the role of inequality and private power in shaping political outcomes. The episode closes with a forward-looking discussion of democratic renewal, emphasizing the importance of organizing, civic infrastructure, and building countervailing power in civil society as essential to resisting authoritarianism and sustaining democratic life.

Show Notes:

• Virtual Sentiments | Deva Woodly on Civil Society and the Politics of Care

• Alex Opera, Adam Smith on Political Judgment: Revisiting the Political Theory of the Wealth of Nations (The Journal of Politics, 2022)

• Paul Sagar, The real Adam Smith (Aeon, 2018)

• Tyler McBrien, What is ‘State Capture’? A Warning for Americans (New York Times, 2025)

• Samuel Bagg, Democratic Disenchantment (Boston 50 Review, 2024)

• Samuel Bagg, Would you sit on a jury to review government regulations? (The Conversation, 2024)

• Theory of Virtual Sentiments | On Adam Smith's Critique of State Capture

**This episode was recorded August 29, 2025.**

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