The Great Sommelier Debate, and the Definition of a Chef

Mar 3, 2026

Ask episode

Chapters

Transcript

Episode notes

#121

Josh, Matt, and Mike are back for another trio episode, and things heat up right from the cold open as Mike unleashes a spicy critique of Danny Meyer's restaurant empire. Comparing Meyer's concepts to "safe, VH1-style" dining, Mike questions his public persona compared to boundary-pushing restaurateurs like Keith McNally and Stephen Starr. After the fiery start, the guys settle into discussing the intricacies of project management, prioritizing ideas using tools like ClickUp, the nuances of developing a burger blend over seven months, and Mike's past life as a bedroom musician. The temperature rises again when Matt dives into a heated debate about professional titles: What makes someone a Sommelier? If you step off the restaurant floor, are you a "former" Somm, or is it a lifelong title just like being a Chef? The trio wraps up the episode by exploring the anti-chef-driven restaurant movement, celebrating the brilliance of the original Momofuku Ssäm Bar, and Mike's full, unfiltered take on Meyer and the Eleven Madison Park buyout.

Timestamps

04:05 Parenting reflections and having a 10-year-old

08:29 Using ClickUp and Replet for restaurant project management

16:45 Wine blending, barrels, and case yields

22:30 Why did it take 7 months to develop a burger blend?

25:52 Mike's past life as a musician

35:36 The Great Sommelier Debate: What defines an active Somm?

42:26 Are TV personalities like David Chang still considered Chefs?

56:23 The brilliance and innovation of the original Momofuku Ssäm Bar

01:00:51 The anti-chef-driven restaurant movement

01:07:18 Retirement, career transitions, and leaving the restaurant floor

Links and resources 📌