Lex Fridman Podcast #415 – Serhii Plokhy: History of Ukraine, Russia, Soviet Union, KGB, Nazis & War
NATO's Role as Pretext
- Russia used NATO expansion as a pretext for war, but underlying cause was controlling Ukraine's trajectory.
- Putin's essay focused on the Russia-Ukraine relationship, not NATO, revealing the invasion's core motive.
Russia's Invasion Goals
- Russia's 2022 invasion aimed to keep Ukraine within its sphere of influence, annexing territory if control failed.
- Plan B, annexation, was triggered by Ukrainian resistance and Western support.
Zelenskyy's Early Defiance
- Zelenskyy's defiance in staying put during the invasion's early days was crucial for Ukrainian morale.
- Against expectations, he rejected leaving, mirroring the unexpected resistance of the Ukrainian people.
Serhii Plokhy is a Ukrainian historian at Harvard University, director of the Ukrainian Research Institute, and an author of many books on history of Eastern Europe, including his latest book The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/serhii-plokhy-transcript
EPISODE LINKS:
Serhii’s X: https://x.com/splokhy
Serhii’s Website: https://history.fas.harvard.edu/people/serhii-plokhii
Harvard Ukrainian Research Institute: https://huri.harvard.edu/
Serhii’s Books: https://amzn.to/3OS2EqK
2006 – The Origins of the Slavic Nations
2010 – Yalta: The Price of Peace
2012 – The Cossack Myth: History and Nationhood in the Age of Empires
2014 – The Last Empire: The Final Days of the Soviet Union
2015 – The Gates of Europe: A History of Ukraine
2016 – The Man with the Poison Gun: A Cold War Spy Story
2017 – Lost Kingdom: The Quest for Empire and the Making of the Russian Nation
2018 – Chernobyl: History of a Tragedy
2021 – Nuclear Folly: A History of the Cuban Missile Crisis
2021 – The Frontline: Essays on Ukraine’s Past and Present
2022 – Atoms and Ashes: A Global History of Nuclear Disaster
2023 – The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History
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OUTLINE:
Here’s the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time.
(00:00) – Introduction
(09:10) – Collapse of the Soviet Union
(25:19) – Origins of Russia and Ukraine
(38:22) – Ukrainian nationalism
(46:04) – Stepan Bandera
(1:15:05) – KGB
(1:30:03) – War in Ukraine
(2:06:19) – NATO and Russia
(2:17:22) – Peace talks
(2:31:09) – Ukrainian Army head Valerii Zaluzhnyi
(2:37:46) – Power and War
(2:48:37) – Holodomor
(2:55:09) – Chernobyl
(3:05:43) – Nuclear power
(3:15:20) – Future of the world