Kitsch, Propaganda and the American Avant-Garde | An Interview with Michael Pearce

Michael Pearce is a writer, painter, teacher and curator, as well as the founder of The Representational Art Conference (TRAC). His book "Kitsch, Propaganda and the American Avant-Garde" uncovers one thing Lenin, Hitler and Roosevelt had in common: A keen eye for art as state propaganda. Avoiding the old-fashioned vs modern dichotomy, Pearce shows the cultural historical roots of employing both figurative and abstract painting to further political correctness. Pearce traces it back to 19th century socialist thinking, and goes in-depth on the ideas of philosophers like Proudhon and Saint-Simon, as well as the protests of Emile Zola. First and foremost, however, he shows how the the American government and a few wealthy families made Avant-garde art into the preferred art form of the 20th century, casting it as the antidote to the sentimentality of kitsch. 👍✨ Support our show and get access to more than 200 exclusive posts: https://patreon.com/caveofapelles/ Chapter markers: 00:00 Intro 01:32 Understanding Kitsch and the Avant-Garde 05:01 Who is Michael Pearce? 08:06 The proto-Communist Avant-Garde 12:47 Proudhon's authoritarian state art 16:22 Proudhon on Courbet and aesthetic ideals 22:02 Courbet, Repin, and Russian realism 23:25 The Bohemian Avant-Garde 26:00 Emile Zola's individualism vs Proudhon 29:59 Capturing the Zeitgeist 33:50 The battle between Avant-Gardes in Soviet Russia 41:49 An individualist Avant-Garde? 42:43 Socialist Realism in the USSR and the USSA 45:36 Nazi art vs Roosevelt's path 47:46 Socialism and the art of the enemy 50:20 Hitler's qualities as a painter 52:19 Degenerate Art and House of German Art 57:25 The sentimental art of the enemy 59:45 The propagandist Nelson Rockefeller 1:02:24 The figurative/kitsch/Hitler connection 1:06:37 Greenberg's essay Avant-Garde and Kitsch 1:11:37 Nazi art: kitsch or bona fide modernism? 1:20:11 Primitive American art as the mother of modernism 1:26:33 Roosevelt & the marriage of USSA and MoMA 1:30:04 The current situation in the art world 1:35:56 The American illustration tradition and escapism 1:38:37 Fergus Ryan: What is "Imaginative realism"? 1:40:37 Fergus Ryan:: What is "emergence" in painting? 1:43:59 Question: Is there a refuge for the human spirit? This episode featured Michael Pearce & Jan-Ove Tuv and was filmed and edited by Bork Nerdrum. The centerpiece was a reproduction of Courbets painting of Proudhon and his children. SHOUTOUT to our TOP SPONSORS! Fergus Ryan Matthias Proy Diego Subscribe to our newsletter. It is the only way to make sure that you receive content from us on a regular basis: https://bit.ly/2L8qCNn Check out our other channels: https://www.youtube.com/c/SchoolofApelles https://www.youtube.com/c/CultureWarsNow Podcast available on SoundCloud, iTunes, and Spotify: https://soundcloud.com/caveofapelles https://spoti.fi/2AVDkcT https://apple.co/2QAcXD6 Website: https://caveofapelles.com Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/caveofapelles TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@caveofapelles Instagram: instagram.com/caveofapelles/ For inquiries — talk@caveofapelles.com