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#800: Ev Williams — The Art of Pivoting (e.g., Odeo to Twitter), Strategic Quitting, The Dangers of Premature Scaling, Must-Read Books, and More

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Mar 19, 2025

Guest

Evan Williams

Ev Williams, co-founder of Blogger, Medium, and Twitter, shares insights from his latest venture, Mosey, a social network for in-person connections. He reflects on the challenges of scaling Medium, emphasizing the need to avoid premature expansion. The conversation dives into the nostalgic beginnings of Twitter and the evolution of digital communication. Williams also discusses strategic quitting, the importance of human skills in an AI-driven world, and personal growth through self-discovery. His journey reveals what it takes to pivot and innovate in tech.

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Episode notes

Odeo and Strategic Quitting

Ev Williams' Odeo, a podcasting company, faced unexpected competition from Apple's iTunes podcast integration.
Despite not failing completely, he chose to stop pursuing it due to a lack of personal interest.

The Importance of Quitting

Quitting projects or jobs when they feel like a slog is often a good idea.
Recognize the opportunity cost of continuing something unfulfilling and explore new possibilities.

Birth of Twitter

After deciding to quit Odeo, Ev Williams asked his team for new ideas.
This led to a hackathon, which eventually birthed Twitter.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Nostalgia for the Dawn of Social Media

05:01 • 4min

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Navigating Connections in the Digital Age

08:55 • 20min

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Financial Insights and the Role of AI in Education

29:15 • 2min

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Essential Human Skills in an AI-Driven Future

31:20 • 2min

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Healing Through Self-Discovery

33:06 • 17min

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Navigating Growth and Focus in Product Development

50:23 • 7min

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Nostalgia, Excitement, and Healthy Choices

57:42 • 6min

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#2366

• Mentioned in 19 episodes

Little, Big

or, The Fairies' Parliament

John Crowley

The novel tells the story of Smoky Barnable, a young man who travels from the City (New York) to Edgewood to marry Daily Alice Drinkwater. Edgewood, a house designed and built by John Drinkwater, serves as a gateway between the human world and the realm of Faerie. The story spans multiple generations of the Drinkwater family, delving into their unique connections with fairies, magical abilities, and the complex, interconnected nature of their world. The narrative is rich in allegory and symbolism, exploring themes of family, love, and the blurring of reality and fantasy.

#897

• Mentioned in 40 episodes

The Effective Executive

The Definitive Guide to Getting the Right Things Done

Peter Drucker

In this book, Peter F. Drucker identifies five essential practices for business effectiveness: managing time, choosing what to contribute to the organization, knowing where and how to mobilize strength for best effect, setting the right priorities, and making effective decisions. Drucker emphasizes that these habits can and must be learned to achieve true effectiveness in an executive role. The book draws from his extensive experience in organizational management and consulting, offering insights that remain relevant despite the passage of time since its original publication in 1967.

#152

• Mentioned in 138 episodes

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Robert Pirsig

This classic novel by Robert M. Pirsig is a personal and philosophical odyssey that delves into the author's search for meaning. The narrative follows a father and his son on a summer motorcycle trip from the Midwest to California, intertwining a travelogue with deep philosophical discussions. The book explores the concept of 'quality' and how it informs a well-lived life, reconciling science, religion, and humanism. It also touches on the author's own struggles with his past and his philosophical quest, making it a touching and transcendent exploration of human experience and endeavor.

#1711

• Mentioned in 25 episodes

All Fours

Miranda July

Miranda July's "All Fours" is a poignant and unconventional novel that explores themes of aging, mortality, and the complexities of human connection. The narrative unfolds through the experiences of an unnamed narrator grappling with her changing body and relationships. July's writing style is characterized by its intimate and often humorous approach to profound subjects. The book delves into the challenges of intergenerational friendships and the societal obsession with youth. Ultimately, "All Fours" offers a reflective and empathetic portrayal of the human experience.

#345

• Mentioned in 80 episodes

Quit

The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away

Annie Duke

#498

• Mentioned in 61 episodes

Why greatness cannot be planned

Kenneth Stanley

#11398

• Mentioned in 4 episodes

The One

Paas

This book explores the convergence of Neoplatonism and contemporary physics, arguing that a relational ontology offers a more adequate account of reality. It examines the implications of this view for various aspects of physics, including quantum mechanics and relativity. The author challenges traditional views on the nature of reality and offers a new perspective on the relationship between physics and metaphysics. The book is a significant contribution to the field of physics, offering a fresh perspective on some of the most fundamental questions about the nature of reality.

Ev Williams is the co-founder of Mozi, a new social network that helps you connect in person with the people you care about. Over the past 25 years, Ev has co-founded several companies that have helped shape the modern internet—including Blogger, Medium, and Twitter. This episode was recorded live at Diggnation, where digg.com was relaunched. Go to digg.com and sign up to get early access when invites go out.

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Timestamps:

[00:00:00] Start

[00:05:35] Kevin Rose starts the party like it's 2004.

[00:07:27] Ev's first internet product.

[00:08:54] How technology became social for Ev.

[00:10:52] The simple idea behind Mozi.

[00:12:05] Strategic quitting vs. sunk-cost perseverance.

[00:18:36] How Odeo begat Twitter.

[00:22:01] Twitter's $11,000 SXSW 2007 inflection point.

[00:23:45] Ev's hopes for Mozi's evolution.

[00:25:02] Favorite books and information inputs.

[00:30:45] Raising a generation to co-exist with AI.

[00:33:12] Ev's billboard.

[00:35:56] How Ev learned to manage his feelings.

[00:37:16] Facing strangers as an introvert with the Hoffman Process.

[00:39:57] Recently adopted habits that have galvanized positive change.

[00:42:44] The silver lining of being fired from Twitter.

[00:45:18] Contemplating how the universe works with The One by Heinrich Päs.

[00:47:04] How Ev stocks his reading list arsenal.

[00:50:26] Big thoughts on a Medium regret.

[00:52:47] Resisting the urge to bloat Mozi with superfluous features.

[00:55:40] How Mozi balances privacy with utility.

[00:57:40] Parting thoughts.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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